A Good Guy with a Gun vs Bad Guy with a Gun ( a myth )

[jgoodguy]

Its not a question of what I say just look at the laws in the many states that at one time did not allow citizens without permits to carry firearms but now do.
Kirk's Raider's

Citizens demanded a change that happened and if they demand another change that will happen.

 

[Kirk's Raider's]

Citizens demanded a change that happened and if they demand another change that will happen.

That is true. Right now the right to carry firearms is popular in quite a few states.
The US Supreme Court had a chance to require all states to allow concealed carry in a case from the Ninth Circuit Court of appeals that the Scotus punted on. I forgot the first name in the case but it involved a law suit against the Sheriff of San Diego County who wouldn't issue a CCW because the applicant couldn't prove he had a reason for a CCW even though California law on CCWs is vaguely written.
I think the case was Preuses vs San Diego County. If Trump can appoint one or more new Supreme Court Justices then perhaps the right to carry firearms will be enshrined.
Kirk's Raider's

 

[Kirk's Raider's]

Citizens demanded a change that happened and if they demand another change that will happen.

The case where the Scotus punted is Peruta v. San Diego County Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals.
Kirk's Raider's

 

[jgoodguy]

That is true. Right now the right to carry firearms is popular in quite a few states.
The US Supreme Court had a chance to require all states to allow concealed carry in a case from the Ninth Circuit Court of appeals that the Scotus punted on. I forgot the first name in the case but it involved a law suit against the Sheriff of San Diego County who wouldn't issue a CCW because the applicant couldn't prove he had a reason for a CCW even though California law on CCWs is vaguely written.
I think the case was Preuses vs San Diego County. If Trump can appoint one or more new Supreme Court Justices then perhaps the right to carry firearms will be enshrined.
Kirk's Raider's

Whatever

 

[O' Be Joyful]

Its not a question of what I say just look at the laws in the many states that at one time did not allow citizens without permits to carry firearms but now do.
Kirk's Raider's

We can not change the ignorance of the past, only the future. If "we" are wise enough.

 

[Kirk's Raider's]

We can not change the ignorance of the past, only the future. If "we" are wise enough.

Crime will only rise in America very soon has the current trend is to go back to catch and release. Americans may not take kindly to having the right to protect. themselves taken away.
Kirk's Raider's

 

[jgoodguy]

Crime will only rise in America very soon has the current trend is to go back to catch and release. Americans may not take kindly to having the right to protect. themselves taken away.
Kirk's Raider's

In order to preserve gun rights, we must lock people up?

 

[Kirk's Raider's]

In order to preserve gun rights, we must lock people up?

Yes we must lock up violent criminals in order to at least undercut the argument that citizens don't need to carry guns for self defense. Currently the trend across the nation is just catch and briefly at most incarcerate criminals.
Has criminals realize that at best if they get caught they will at most face a brief period of incarceration then they have no reason not to commit more crimes.
Has police officers become more demoralized over using force the police will to a great extent just let criminals go about their business.
Kirk's Raider's

 

[rittmeister]

Yes we must lock up violent criminals in order to at least undercut the argument that citizens don't need to carry guns for self defense. Currently the trend across the nation is just catch and briefly at most incarcerate criminals.
Has criminals realize that at best if they get caught they will at most face a brief period of incarceration then they have no reason not to commit more crimes.
Has police officers become more demoralized over using force the police will to a great extent just let criminals go about their business.
Kirk's Raider's

so how comes that no industry nation has an incarceration rate even close to the usa's?

 

[jgoodguy]

so how comes that no industry nation has an incarceration rate even close to the usa's?

In order to preserve gun rights, examples must be made.

 

[jgoodguy]

Yes we must lock up violent criminals in order to at least undercut the argument that citizens don't need to carry guns for self defense. Currently the trend across the nation is just catch and briefly at most incarcerate criminals.
Has criminals realize that at best if they get caught they will at most face a brief period of incarceration then they have no reason not to commit more crimes.
Has police officers become more demoralized over using force the police will to a great extent just let criminals go about their business.
Kirk's Raider's

Strange that has not worked is it not?
I guess that hair of the dog cures hangovers.

 

[Kirk's Raider's]

so how comes that no industry nation has an incarceration rate even close to the usa's?

Because demographically we are not a homogeneous nation like Japan or Korea or what Western Europe was decades ago. The US should be compared more with two other industrialised nations such has Brazil and South Africa. US history and demographics are more in line with those two nations then Western Europe. Also crime has gone up in Western Europe as they transition into third world demographics.
The US crime rate is not as bad as South Africa , Mexico and Brazil at least for now due to some what more efficient law enforcement.
The US does incarcerate people for drug offenses but that is changing.
Kirk's Raider's

 

[Kirk's Raider's]

Strange that has not worked is it not?
I guess that hair of the dog cures hangovers.

Compared to demographically similar nations to the US such has Mexico,Brazil,South Africa and Venezuela yes it has.
Kirk's Raider's

 

[jgoodguy]

Compared to demographically similar nations to the US such has Mexico,Brazil,South Africa and Venezuela yes it has.
Kirk's Raider's

I agree that the Republican party and their corrupt conservative ideology have turned the US into a 3rd world country, but I am surprised to find that assertion here.

 

[jgoodguy]

Because demographically we are not a homogeneous nation like Japan or Korea or what Western Europe was decades ago. The US should be compared more with two other industrialised nations such has Brazil and South Africa. US history and demographics are more in line with those two nations then Western Europe. Also crime has gone up in Western Europe as they transition into third world demographics.
The US crime rate is not as bad as South Africa , Mexico and Brazil at least for now due to some what more efficient law enforcement.
The US does incarcerate people for drug offenses but that is changing.
Kirk's Raider's

Thanks for bringing up Mexico as an example of the good guys with guns winning and an armed society is a polite society.

 

[Kirk's Raider's]

Thanks for bringing up Mexico as an example of the good guys with guns winning and an armed society is a polite society.

Mexico is a great example where relying on the police and army for security has utterly failed. Certain rural areas maintain law and order only through local vigilante/Militia known as auto defensia. Mexico always had much stricter gun control then the US but how did that work out?
Kirk's Raider's

 

[Kirk's Raider's]

I agree that the Republican party and their corrupt conservative ideology have turned the US into a 3rd world country, but I am surprised to find that assertion here.

I am not making an assertion. I am pointing out that American history is more similar to South Africa, Venezuela and Brazil then Western Europe . All four nations had slavery and are demographically and in culture closer to the US.
Kirk's Raider's

 

[Kirk's Raider's]

Let's look at what happened yesterday in London. At the London Bridge where previous stabbings have occurred it took the London Metropolitan police five minutes to arrive at approximately 1pm local time. A mass shooting is typically over by that time. In less then five minutes on a crowded bridge crossing just one man killed two people and severely injured three. Perhaps an armed citizen could of saved lives.
Kirk's Raider's

 

[O' Be Joyful]

Thanks for bringing up Mexico as an example of the good guys with guns winning and an armed society is a polite society.

Question: Do you mean as by a continually determined group to weaken the gov't to infuse mayhem and thus be able to make excuses for it to be controlled/siezed by an autocractic and uniformed leadership? I fear that we are headed that way. Chaos breeds a thirst for "order", which is the wine of tyrants.

 

[rittmeister]

Let's look at what happened yesterday in London. At the London Bridge where previous stabbings have occurred it took the London Metropolitan police five minutes to arrive at approximately 1pm local time. A mass shooting is typically over by that time. In less then five minutes on a crowded bridge crossing just one man killed two people and severely injured three. Perhaps an armed citizen could of saved lives.
Kirk's Raider's

don't you think that with american gun laws the perpetrator would have shown up with sth more substantial than two knives. that perpetrator was wrestled down by unarmed civilians (most of them former inmates, btw). armed police (which is not standard in the uk) shot him 'cause he wore a (fake) suicide vest and they didn't want him to detonate it.

i'm still waiting for a couple of cases where good guys with guns stopped bad guys with guns. as that seems to happen all the time (at least if wayne lapierre is to be believed) it should be easy to provide examples, shouldn't it?