A Good Guy with a Gun vs Bad Guy with a Gun ( a myth )

Discussion in 'General Discussion Forum Be Polite.' started by 5fish, Nov 27, 2019.

  1. 5fish

    5fish Well-Known Member

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    It a right scare tactic just like Trump accuses immigrants of crime...

    Here is a link to Europe and refugees and crime...

    https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.com/news/amp/world-europe-45419466
     
  2. rittmeister

    rittmeister trekkie in residence Staff Member

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    i think they have two mags but i need to check that - checked it: since 2007 no ammo

    i did not know that
     
  3. jgoodguy

    jgoodguy Webmaster Staff Member Administrator

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    I used to debate gun control. It surprised me too when I checked into it.
     
  4. rittmeister

    rittmeister trekkie in residence Staff Member

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    that's total nonsense - if we revive operation tannenbaum they're all dead before they get to the ammo

    disclaimer: there's no intention to do that- it's for argument's sake only
     
  5. jgoodguy

    jgoodguy Webmaster Staff Member Administrator

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    Hard to say, but if the ammo is for example 15 minutes away, then there should be enough time. After all, all the men are going to be called to central locations to organize pass out the ammo then.
     
  6. Kirk's Raider's

    Kirk's Raider's Well-Known Member

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    Perception is reality. If West Europeans see and or hear that migrants are a threat then they will preceding accordingly. In politics not every voter cares what academic experts say or think.
    Kirk's Raider's
     
  7. rittmeister

    rittmeister trekkie in residence Staff Member

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    you are making a mistake here - most europeans accept / are happy about gun control. from all what i can find most americans, too but we don't have such a loud pro gun minority


    ... how about those examples of good guys with guns ...
     
  8. jgoodguy

    jgoodguy Webmaster Staff Member Administrator

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    I am interested in those examples too.
     
  9. Kirk's Raider's

    Kirk's Raider's Well-Known Member

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    Plenty of examples there is the armed citizen blog at American rifleman.org. I have the American Hunter magazine with six examples from September 2019. Plenty of examples on YouTube one can easily Google "Armed Self Protect" which is a channel that features armed citizens protecting themselves from criminals.
    Kirk's Raider's
     
    Last edited: Dec 2, 2019
  10. Kirk's Raider's

    Kirk's Raider's Well-Known Member

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    The demographics are not similar in the countries cited although it is definitely changing. Vermont and New Hampshire have very liberal gun carrying gun laws in fact Vermont always allowed citizens without felony records to carry firearms. Both states per capita have much less gun crime then almost every state in the Union.
    However there demographics are not the same.
    Kirk's Raider's
     
  11. Kirk's Raider's

    Kirk's Raider's Well-Known Member

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    True that the mega Churches that started in circa mid 1970s are in the decline. Nonetheless they still have many members. Gun owners also go to smaller independent or non mega churches as well.
    Kirk's Raider's
     
  12. 5fish

    5fish Well-Known Member

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    Remember, the studies show less than 3% or even only 1% of guns are used in stopping crime. What you are posting is anecdotal evidence.
     
  13. Kirk's Raider's

    Kirk's Raider's Well-Known Member

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    So what. I have actually witnessed a shooting when I was working armed patrol at ADT in Paramount,California. I saw a store clerk at Circle K get shot by some gang bangers then slowly drive towards me and some other people . I had at the time just my .38 special revolver and I pointed it at the car . I couldn't shoot them because under California Bureau of Consumer Investigation Service's policy I can only shoot an active attacker not one fleeing although they were slowly passing me by. If I was a peace officer I could shoot them per the US Supreme Court decision Gardner v Tennessee.
    The Los Angeles County Sheriff did not arrive until well after they left.
    Facts are facts. No academic researcher ,no Black Lives Matter supporter ,no politicians, and rarely any law enforcement officer will protect a citizen who is under active attack.
    It's up to a citizen to defend himself not the police.
    Kirk's Raider's
     
  14. jgoodguy

    jgoodguy Webmaster Staff Member Administrator

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    I see lots of rhetoric with few facts.
     
  15. rittmeister

    rittmeister trekkie in residence Staff Member

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    nope, it's a gOOgle assignment
     
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  16. rittmeister

    rittmeister trekkie in residence Staff Member

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    so i did gOOgle. my first hit was with the washington times:

    11 times a good guy with a gun stopped a bad guy, saving lives

    the timeframe is from 2007 to 2016 - let's break it down, shall we?
    • a 71 year old customer in an internet cafe
    • a former cop
    • a reserve sherrif's deputy and owner of the place
    • an armed guard in a school
    • cops and guards at a mohammed cartoon contest (my favourite)
    • a shop employee
    • five home invasions
    in my book that 71 yo counts, all the others are either trained (ex) professionals or on known ground (shop employee + home invasions)

    the next 8 are debunking that myths

    no 10 is again a hit from august 2019. from the washington examiner:

    good guy with a gun strikes again to protect the public
    • off duty firefighter in a walmart
    no 11 is the nra trying to sell me a good guy with a gun t-shirt and the reason why i stopped my endeavour at that point

    conclusion:
    a quick gOOgle sessions shows two genuine cases within the last 12 years (there are certainly more) of a good guy with a gun protecting the public.

    feel free to dispute what i wrote or add more cases (with sources). as you are having trouble with your computerskills you could at least open the american hunter and simply type the pertinent information into a post.

    thx

    ... btw, i will accept armed self-defence on unknown ground (the reason why i don't accept it for a home invasion is that the time to prepare is a lot longer and the unknown ground is the perp's problem). if you insist on including them i will search for people who weren't that lucky defending their homes.

    ---

    i think what the us needs is a multipronged way to tackle the problem. probably caused by the frontier history violence seems to be the first and only solution for way too many problems - from a dispute over a parking space to foreign policy.

    and please don't come up comparing the usa to mexico or brazil again. they are no match for the greatest nation on earth, are they?
     
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  17. jgoodguy

    jgoodguy Webmaster Staff Member Administrator

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    It took Europe 500 years, more or less, and 2 world wars.
     
  18. O' Be Joyful

    O' Be Joyful Well-Known Member

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  19. O' Be Joyful

    O' Be Joyful Well-Known Member

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    I should add that, there are very few guns in Britain. But more than a few narwhal tusks...and fire-extinguishers.
     
  20. Kirk's Raider's

    Kirk's Raider's Well-Known Member

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    St.Joesph News Press 6/18/19
    An armed citizen pointed his gun at an inmate who shot a police officer with the officers own gun.
    Lots of other examples.
    Also in the Czech Republic citizens have armed themselves for self defense. As immigrants kill and rape enough Germans then public opinion in Germany will change.
    Kirk's Raider's
     

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