Best tanks of WWII

Discussion in 'Non Civil War Military History' started by Kirk's Raider's, Feb 9, 2020.

  1. Kirk's Raider's

    Kirk's Raider's Well-Known Member

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    I am surprised that there weren't higher scoring Soviet Tank aces has they had four years and lots of tanks to shoot at.
    Kirk's Raiders
     
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  2. rittmeister

    rittmeister trekkie in residence Staff Member Administrator

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    there were also lots of people shooting at them
     
  3. Kirk's Raider's

    Kirk's Raider's Well-Known Member

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    Same for the German tankers.
    Kirk's Raiders
     
  4. rittmeister

    rittmeister trekkie in residence Staff Member Administrator

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    the actual kill ratio is under heavy debate but it was certainly not favouring the russians
     
  5. Kirk's Raider's

    Kirk's Raider's Well-Known Member

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    That may be true but why ? The Soviet Army possessed very good tanks, tank destroyers and anti tank guns . The Soviet Airforce outnumbered the Luftwaffe by August of 1942 due to no small part of British and American aircraft donated to the Soviet Airforce.
    Soviet tankers had plenty of opportunities to kill lots of tanks and they did. However they didn't seem to have individual tank aces rack up huge scores. It's a bit of a mystery.
    Kirk's Raiders
     
  6. Kirk's Raider's

    Kirk's Raider's Well-Known Member

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    S really good documentary with interviews by German and allied tanks vets is " Tiger attack" battle stations the history channel. Arguably the Tiger may of very well been the best tank of WWII in terms of fire power and armoured protection.
    However they were expensive and the Germans could only produce approximately 1,300 Tigers divided on two fronts. The Tiger required 2.5. gallons of gasoline to go one mile. With the loss of Romania obtaining petroleum was a major issue for the Germans.
    The Luftwaffe by 1944 simply lacked enough aircraft to protect German troops on the front lines. Allied aircraft with anti-tank rockets such has the British Typhoon and American P-47 were deadly. The British Fire fly version of the Sherman and T-34/85 were capable of destroying the Tiger 1 tanks.
    The King Tiger was far two little and two late. It was a very thirsty beast and only so much fuel to go around. This was a huge liability in the battle of the Bulge where King Tigers were forced to be abandoned and blown up by their crews.
    The Soviet SU-122 and especially the SU -152 were a huge threat to the King Tiger's.
    Kirk's Raiders
     
  7. rittmeister

    rittmeister trekkie in residence Staff Member Administrator

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    both should never have been built
     
  8. Kirk's Raider's

    Kirk's Raider's Well-Known Member

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    So the Germans should of just stuck with Panzer MkIV? What alternatives did the Germans have to the Panthers and Tigers?
    Obviously the ultimate fault lies with Hitler for attacking the Soviet Union which after the Molitov-Rittenthrop (sp?) Treaty was providing Germany with Petroleum and wheat.
    In fact Churchill even wanted to bomb Soviet oil refineries in then the Soviet Republic of Azerbaijan to hinder the Nazi war machine.
    Also declaring war against the US while understandable did really help the Nazis either.
    Kirk's Raiders
     
  9. rittmeister

    rittmeister trekkie in residence Staff Member Administrator

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    didn't say that - is said tigers and kingtigers - for the price of one tiger you gott two panthers. they also needed a lot less fuel. don't let me even start on the maus project
     
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  10. 5fish

    5fish Well-Known Member

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    In 81 day... The American tank ace...

    Link: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lafayette_G._Pool


    Lafayette Green Pool (July 23, 1919 – May 30, 1991) was an American tank-crew and tank-platoon commander in World War II and is widely recognized as the US tank ace of aces,[2][page needed] credited with 12 confirmed tank kills and 258 total armoured vehicle and self-propelled gun kills, over 1,000 German soldiers killed, and 250 more taken as prisoners of war[3] all of which took place in a combat career that covered only 81 days in action from 27 June to 15 September 1944 with three different Shermans.[4] He received many medals, including the Distinguished Service Cross, the Legion of Merit, the Silver Star, the Purple Heart, the Belgian Fourragère, and the French Légion d'honneur.[5]
     
  11. 5fish

    5fish Well-Known Member

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  12. rittmeister

    rittmeister trekkie in residence Staff Member Administrator

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    it looks rather like with fighter pilots
     
  13. Kirk's Raider's

    Kirk's Raider's Well-Known Member

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    Tank Chat as a good clip on the history of the T-34 and Inside Tanks as one in the KV series of Soviet tanks. Arguably the KV-1 was the best tank for the first 18 months of WW2 starting in June of 1941. The KV-1 was impervious to German Tank rounds on its frontal section until the introduction of the Panther and Tiger. Four KV 1s took out 43 Panzers near Lenningrad one was hit over 100 hundred times and still functioned.
    Kirk's Raiders
     
    Last edited: Feb 14, 2020 at 12:31 AM
  14. Kirk's Raider's

    Kirk's Raider's Well-Known Member

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    Was the Panther arguably the best tank of WWII?
    The brief video clip " Was the Panther the best German Tank of the 1940s?" Makes that argument. The Panther was definitely based on captured T-34s but had a much better gun and was better made at least after the initial batch that fought at Kursk and had some manufacture defects.
    Kirk's Raiders
     
  15. Kirk's Raider's

    Kirk's Raider's Well-Known Member

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    So far it could be argued that the M-26 Pershing was the best tank of WWII as it had everything thing a tank needed in terms of reliability,fire power and armoured protection.
    The Pershing was successful against Tiger and Panther Tanks and T-34/85 in Korea.
    On the other hand only 20 Pershings's were deployed to Europe and that was in January 1945 so not a game changer.
    One could also argue that the Tiger and Panther Tanks were the best tanks of WWII but with only 1,300 or so Tiger tanks divided by two fronts they had their hands full.
    I don't have the figures yet on the Panther.
    Still Tigers and Panthers had to sweat Firefly's ,T-34/85s KV-2s SU-100,122 and 154s plus artillery and rocket firing aircraft.
    Not an easy life.
    Kirk's Raiders
     
  16. 5fish

    5fish Well-Known Member

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    What about our first true main battle tank...

    The M48 Patton is an American first generation main battle tank introduced in February 1951. It was designed as a replacement for the M26 Pershing, M4 Sherman variants and M46 Pattons used in the Korean War, and as the successor to the M47 Patton. Wikipedia
     
  17. Wehrkraftzersetzer

    Wehrkraftzersetzer Hüter des Reinheitsgebotes

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    sorry Americans are no Romulans, they didn't invent everything. Just changing definitions doesn't qualify 4 ingenuity
     
  18. rittmeister

    rittmeister trekkie in residence Staff Member Administrator

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    try reading - it was a first generation mbt and the first generation american mbt - nobody said it was the first mbt. as i see it the patton was the american 'panther II'.

    'nough said

    ... btw,

    emphasis mine

    zhe fishdude is an american, which means he's totally right about that
     
    Last edited: Feb 16, 2020 at 5:42 PM
  19. Wehrkraftzersetzer

    Wehrkraftzersetzer Hüter des Reinheitsgebotes

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    oops, took our for us Terrans
     
  20. rittmeister

    rittmeister trekkie in residence Staff Member Administrator

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    nobody ever called the first main battle tank like that - everyone and their dog called it panzerkampfwagen V - and everybody believed in the heavy tank (which was totally bonkers). the mbt concept was invented after the war (kinda closely resembling a flawless panther). that mbts got heavier is another thing.

    in other words: our first (official) mbt was the leopard I

    edit: changed @Wehrkraftzersetzer's post to what it was when i reponded
     

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