Black Southern motivation

[jgoodguy]

Black Confederate soldiers existed at best in miniscule numbers. The Confederacy didn't trust and with good reason to have armed black soldiers until the last three weeks of the war and maybe just forty soldiers at that.
If there were only and do far no counter argument that maybe 100 black men fired a shot in anger in defense of the Confederacy then for all practical purposes the black Confederate soldiers are basically a myth.
Coerced people does not support make.
In no way shape or form did anything close to a majority or a significant amount of Southern blacks support the Confederacy.
In no way did Southern whites make any attempt to treat black people as equals after the ACW or make exceptions for those who supposedly fought on the side of the Confederacy other then very modest pension for a mere handful of black men.
Not seeing the argument that the Confederacy was an equal opportunity society that had substantial support from its black population based on military service.
Kirk's Raider's

Pie Chart
Blue is 1,000,000 White Confederates.
Orange at 12 o'clock is 100 hypothetical 'Black Confederates' 1 pixel wide.

 

[Andersonh1]

Black Confederate soldiers existed at best in miniscule numbers. The Confederacy didn't trust and with good reason to have armed black soldiers until the last three weeks of the war and maybe just forty soldiers at that.
If there were only and do far no counter argument that maybe 100 black men fired a shot in anger in defense of the Confederacy then for all practical purposes the black Confederate soldiers are basically a myth.
Coerced people does not support make.
In no way shape or form did anything close to a majority or a significant amount of Southern blacks support the Confederacy.
In no way did Southern whites make any attempt to treat black people as equals after the ACW or make exceptions for those who supposedly fought on the side of the Confederacy other then very modest pension for a mere handful of black men.
Not seeing the argument that the Confederacy was an equal opportunity society that had substantial support from its black population based on military service.
Kirk's Raider's

Most of that has nothing to do with what I said.

 

[Tom]

nt

 

[Tom]

Pie Chart
Blue is 1,000,000 White Confederates.
Orange at 12 o'clock is 100 hypothetical 'Black Confederates' 1 pixel wide.

Here are my charts representing the percentages of black and white enlisted men.​

I didn't use the 1890 Census of surviving Union and Confederate Soldiers, but it tends to support my charts-

1890 Census of Civil War Veterans

Union- 1,034,073 (Total)
White- 980,274 (95%)
Black- 53,799 (5%)

Confederate- 432,020 (Total)
White- 428,747 (99%)
Black- 3,273 (1%)
https://www2.census.gov/prod2/decennial/documents/1890a_v1p2-14.pdf

Union



Confederate

 

[jgoodguy]

Black- 3,273 (1%)

So there 32 Companies of Black Confederate Riflemen no one noticed?

Please quote the passage w page number where the heck the text is that supports your assertion.

 

[rittmeister]

So there 32 Companies of Black Confederate Riflemen no one noticed?

cavalry? probably all under the command of the gray ghost?

 

[Andersonh1]

Here are my charts representing the percentages of black and white enlisted men.​

I didn't use the 1890 Census of surviving Union and Confederate Soldiers, but it tends to support my charts-

1890 Census of Civil War Veterans

Union- 1,034,073 (Total)
White- 980,274 (95%)
Black- 53,799 (5%)

Confederate- 432,020 (Total)
White- 428,747 (99%)
Black- 3,273 (1%)
https://www2.census.gov/prod2/decennial/documents/1890a_v1p2-14.pdf

Union

View attachment 337

Confederate

View attachment 338

I assume these men self-identified, correct? So these are black men identifying themselves as Confederate veterans to the census taker, or when they filled out the form, rather than others giving them that label.

 

[jgoodguy]

I assume these men self-identified, correct? So these are black men identifying themselves as Confederates, not others giving them that label.

I have not seen the text supporting the assertion. However, I have the 1890 questionnaire which does not ask which side. The answer to your question is no they are not self-identifying and others are applying the label.
Source
Here is the question

 

[Kirk's Raider's]

Most of that has nothing to do with what I said.

So why are black Confederate soldiers so significant? Far more Southern whites joined the Union Army ( 104k vs maybe 3k black men with almost no combat usage) vs a minuscule amount of black men.
Dies the fact that an extremely small amount of black men who fought for the Confederacy prove that the majority of black Southerners supported the Confederacy or the Confederacy was a multi racial democracy?
Kirk's Raider's

 

[Andersonh1]

So why are black Confederate soldiers so significant? Far more Southern whites joined the Union Army ( 104k vs maybe 3k black men with almost no combat usage) vs a minuscule amount of black men.
Dies the fact that an extremely small amount of black men who fought for the Confederacy prove that the majority of black Southerners supported the Confederacy or the Confederacy was a multi racial democracy?
Kirk's Raider's

We can't just study the topic because it's interesting? Does every aspect of the Civil War have to be hugely significant to be worth your time?

 

[Kirk's Raider's]

We can't just study the topic because it's interesting? Does every aspect of the Civil War have to be hugely significant to be worth your time?

As long as we don't make the disingenuous argument the SCV and others make that the Confederacy was supported just as much by black Southerners as they did the Union and the very few black Confederate soldiers proves that the Confederacy was an equal opportunity society.
Kirk's Raider's

 

[Andersonh1]

As long as we don't make the disingenuous argument the SCV and others make that the Confederacy was supported just as much by black Southerners as they did the Union and the very few black Confederate soldiers proves that the Confederacy was an equal opportunity society.
Kirk's Raider's

If I've ever made that argument, you're welcome to point it out and correct me.

 

[jgoodguy]

As long as we don't make the disingenuous argument the SCV and others make that the Confederacy was supported just as much by black Southerners as they did the Union and the very few black Confederate soldiers proves that the Confederacy was an equal opportunity society.
Kirk's Raider's

I personally leave the strawman arguments to the other guy.

 

[Tom]

I have not seen the text supporting the assertion. However, I have the 1890 questionnaire which does not ask which side. The answer to your question is no they are not self-identifying and others are applying the label.
Source
Here is the question
View attachment 341

View attachment 339

X-Where's the veterans schedule?-X

Never mind. It was only for Union vets.

 

[Tom]

So there 32 Companies of Black Confederate Riflemen no one noticed?

Please quote the passage w page number where the heck the text is that supports your assertion.

14 companies in New Orleans got a lot of notice.

 

[Tom]

So why are black Confederate soldiers so significant? Far more Southern whites joined the Union Army ( 104k vs maybe 3k black men with almost no combat usage) vs a minuscule amount of black men.
Kirk's Raider's

We have you to study that. Don't need us.

 

[Tom]

I have not seen the text supporting the assertion. However, I have the 1890 questionnaire which does not ask which side. The answer to your question is no they are not self-identifying and others are applying the label.

How would others know what label to apply?

 

[Tom]

I assume these men self-identified, correct? So these are black men identifying themselves as Confederate veterans to the census taker, or when they filled out the form, rather than others giving them that label.

Yes

 

[jgoodguy]

jgoodguy said: ↑
So there 32 Companies of Black Confederate Riflemen no one noticed?

Please quote the passage w page number where the heck the text is that supports your assertion​

14 companies in New Orleans got a lot of notice.

No rifles = no riflemen. How many NGs had rifles?
Where is the text supporting the 32 companies of 'Black Confederate' veterans I was assured was in the census results?

 

[jgoodguy]

X-Where's the veterans schedule?-X

Never mind. It was only for Union vets.

Please post when you find the evidence. Thanks.