Eric Foner on The Lost Promise of the Reconstruction Era

Tom

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 30, 2019
Messages
1,004
Reaction score
561
Donn Piatt: “all race antagonism came from the carpetbaggers using the Negro votes to get their fingers into the Treasury."

Born in 1819 in Cincinnati, Donn Piatt died in 1891 at the Piatt Castles that still stand in western Ohio. He was a diplomat, historian, journalist, judge, lawyer, legislator, lobbyist, novelist, playwright, poet, and politician—and a well-known humorist, once called on to replace Mark Twain when Twain’s humor failed him. A staunch opponent of slavery, Piatt campaigned in 1860 for Abraham Lincoln, who briefly took a liking to him but found him too outspoken and later cursed him when, as a Union officer, Piatt recruited slaves in Maryland.
http://www.kentstateuniversitypress.com/2011/donn-piatt/
 

Joshism

Well-Known Member
Joined
Sep 8, 2019
Messages
488
Reaction score
587
That's very altruistic sounding, but the foremost thing a politician wants is to maintain his office and the power and wealth that goes with it. The only way Radicals could do that was disfranchise as many whites as possible.
Is your argument that all politicians are motivated primarily by power and never for any good reasons?
 

Kirk's Raider's

Well-Known Member
Joined
May 16, 2019
Messages
2,251
Reaction score
922
Donn Piatt: “all race antagonism came from the carpetbaggers using the Negro votes to get their fingers into the Treasury."

Born in 1819 in Cincinnati, Donn Piatt died in 1891 at the Piatt Castles that still stand in western Ohio. He was a diplomat, historian, journalist, judge, lawyer, legislator, lobbyist, novelist, playwright, poet, and politician—and a well-known humorist, once called on to replace Mark Twain when Twain’s humor failed him. A staunch opponent of slavery, Piatt campaigned in 1860 for Abraham Lincoln, who briefly took a liking to him but found him too outspoken and later cursed him when, as a Union officer, Piatt recruited slaves in Maryland.
http://www.kentstateuniversitypress.com/2011/donn-piatt/
So no Southern white is to be faulted for killing and raping black people to prevent them from exercising their political rights ? The Antebellum South was a racial paradise and if it wasn't for the dam Yankees blacks would always been allowed to vote,never been discriminated against and been allowed to freely date and marry white people.
Kirk's Raider's
 

MattL

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jun 3, 2019
Messages
203
Reaction score
439
I haven't seen anyone say that.
Then I think you might need to talk with more people on this subject, especially Southerners. That they considered the South is a "racial paradise" is definitely hyperbolic, though I'm guessing purposely by Kirk. I agree that I've seen many pro Confederate Southerners try to put the blame of racial tensions in the post-Civil War South on the "yankees" and Reconstruction. Often in a narrative that it soured the well since it was so strong and the following Jim Crow and other extreme responses were due to that. Of course this makes no sense IMHO because I'm pretty sure 250 years of slavery, rapes, and beatings weren't just going to evolve into a racial paradise overnight. The eras that followed, of Jim Crow, lynchings, and then segregation were a natural de-escalation from the end of slavery.

Reconstruction-era White hurt feelings from temporary Black empowerment isn't a believable explanation IMHO that many pro-Confederates give.
 

Joshism

Well-Known Member
Joined
Sep 8, 2019
Messages
488
Reaction score
587
I haven't seen anyone say that.
A member of SCV was kind enough to step right up and argue a racial paradise (in not so many words):
http://cwmemory.com/2019/09/17/the-baghdad-bob-of-the-civil-war/

The best part is the end. It's so terrible the way the Civil War stopped a long history of "African tribesmen" having the freedom to marry white women in the South. Logically then all those brutal lynch mobs during Jim Crow are apparently the fault of Yankees.
 

Tom

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 30, 2019
Messages
1,004
Reaction score
561
I've seen many pro Confederate Southerners try to put the blame of racial tensions in the post-Civil War South on the "yankees" and Reconstruction.
Donn Piatt: “all race antagonism came from the carpetbaggers using the Negro votes to get their fingers into the Treasury."

He said it, not me. He was from Ohio and served in the Union army.

Reconstruction-era
And was witness to the Reconstruction Error.
 
Last edited:

MattL

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jun 3, 2019
Messages
203
Reaction score
439
Donn Piatt: “all race antagonism came from the carpetbaggers using the Negro votes to get their fingers into the Treasury."

He said it, not me. He was from Ohio and served in the Union army.


And was witness to the Reconstruction Error.
So the fact he served in the Union and was from Ohio makes him an expert on the South? Well in that case we can ignore anything but what Union soldiers from Ohio said about Southern history in general!

Also you just confirmed that people do say this exact thing, though there's plenty of Southern Pro-Confederates who said it and still do say it.
 

O' Be Joyful

ohio hillbilly
Joined
May 12, 2019
Messages
3,491
Reaction score
3,136
As info:

Donn Piatt
Gadfly of the Gilded Age
Biography, Diplomatic Studies, History

Peter Bridges
“In Peter Bridges, this hearty hater and doughty defender has been given a worthy biographer.”

The Journal of American History

  • Description
  • Author
  • Reviews
A celebrated diplomat and editor whose outspoken opinions shaped views on the national agenda
Born in 1819 in Cincinnati, Donn Piatt died in 1891 at the Piatt Castles that still stand in western Ohio. He was a diplomat, historian, journalist, judge, lawyer, legislator, lobbyist, novelist, playwright, poet, and politician—and a well-known humorist, once called on to replace Mark Twain when Twain’s humor failed him. A staunch opponent of slavery, Piatt campaigned in 1860 for Abraham Lincoln, who briefly took a liking to him but found him too outspoken and later cursed him when, as a Union officer, Piatt recruited slaves in Maryland.

http://www.kentstateuniversitypress.com/2011/donn-piatt/
 
Last edited:

O' Be Joyful

ohio hillbilly
Joined
May 12, 2019
Messages
3,491
Reaction score
3,136
As info:

Donn Piatt
Gadfly of the Gilded Age
Biography, Diplomatic Studies, History

Peter Bridges
“In Peter Bridges, this hearty hater and doughty defender has been given a worthy biographer.”

The Journal of American History

  • Description
  • Author
  • Reviews
A celebrated diplomat and editor whose outspoken opinions shaped views on the national agenda
Born in 1819 in Cincinnati, Donn Piatt died in 1891 at the Piatt Castles that still stand in western Ohio. He was a diplomat, historian, journalist, judge, lawyer, legislator, lobbyist, novelist, playwright, poet, and politician—and a well-known humorist, once called on to replace Mark Twain when Twain’s humor failed him. A staunch opponent of slavery, Piatt campaigned in 1860 for Abraham Lincoln, who briefly took a liking to him but found him too outspoken and later cursed him when, as a Union officer, Piatt recruited slaves in Maryland.

http://www.kentstateuniversitypress.com/2011/donn-piatt/

I addition, even though I have no love for the Piatts, I can not but be saddened by this turn of events.




Mac-O-Chee, one of two historic properties created by the Piatts in Logan County, is scheduled to be sold on Oct. 19.


On a lovely summer’s day, a drive through the rolling hills south of Bellefontaine is a pleasant reminder of just how beautiful the Buckeye State can be.

It’s easy to see why brothers Abram and Donn Piatt fell in love with the land their father had farmed near the town of West Liberty in southern Logan County, and why they would each choose to build a grand manor there.

The homes, named Mac-A-Cheek and Mac-O-Chee, have been known by generations of visitors as the Piatt Castles.

The downside of building a castle is defending it — either from the ravages of invading barbarians, which was never a problem for the Piatt family, or from the equally ravaging forces of time, which was and is.


Mac-A-Cheek has been in the Piatt family since it was built in 1871, and it has been open to public tours since about 1912. The manor was built by Abram Piatt, a journalist and prosperous farmer.

Mac-O-Chee was built less than a mile away in 1879, by Donn Piatt, a prominent author, editor and diplomat. Although Donn Piatt’s widow sold Mac-O-Chee after his death, the family repurchased it in 1957, opened it to tours, and began a process of restoration.

Generations of Ohio visitors, including countless busloads of school children, have enjoyed touring both venerable structures and learning the history of the properties and the Piatt family. I remember visiting when I was on a fifth-grade field trip and being impressed by the imposing limestone structures. That’s also where I first learned the word “fresco,” the paint-on-plaster technique used to decorate the magnificent interiors of the mansions.

This year, however, might be the last chance to tour both properties, at least for the foreseeable future. Mac-O-Chee is scheduled to be sold at auction on Oct. 19.

After repurchasing Mac-O-Chee, the family was never able to turn the corner, financially, to do a proper restoration, said Margaret Piatt, the 3rd generation of Piatt owners and stewards.

“It’s just not been within out power to raise the money to restore the building, and not even to do the maintenance,” Piatt said.

So now the family has decided to sell Mac-O-Chee in order to save and improve Mac-A Cheek.

“It’s like Sophies Choice, you know,” said Piatt, with just a hint of a catch in her voice.

The family will retain Mac-A-Cheek and keep it open for tours. The family also hopes to significantly restore Mac-A-Cheek and to update and improve the museum exhibits there.

“We plan to put the majority of the proceeds (from the sale) into the other property,” Piatt said.

Mac-A-Cheek will also add a “Memories of Mac-O-Chee” exhibit, Piatt said.


“We don’t want to forget Mac-O-Chee,” she said.

Piatt said she tried but failed to find an appropriate organization willing to take on the job of restoring Mac-O-Chee.

She hopes the new owners see fit to respect its historical and architectural integrity, she said.

“It’s not my place to decide what someone wants to do with it, but I do hope they keep the original character and fabric of the place,” she said.

“Even though we haven’t been able to restore it, I’m glad we’ve been able to keep it open as long as we have, and have given pleasure to so many people who have gone through it.”

Both castles are currently scheduled to be open daily through Labor Day with additional weekend hours in the fall. For more information, call 937-465-2821 or visit www.piattcastles.org.

Details regarding the auction will be available at OhioRealEstateAuctions.com.

Steve Stephens is the Dispatch home and travel writer. E-mail him at sstephens@dispatch.com or follow him on Twitter @SteveStephens.


https://www.dispatch.com/entertainmentlife/20190726/piatt-castle-to-be-auctioned-off-in-fall

 

MattL

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jun 3, 2019
Messages
203
Reaction score
439
Bill Clinton perjured himself under oath. Obama said my insurance premiums would go down, & I could keep my doctor. Does that make all Democrats liars..? Does their outright lies make the DNC a fraudulent, or dishonest organization..?

Interpretations & lies are two different things. To call the SCV as an organization, liars, isn't fair.

When I, or others refer to some of the more famous Black folks who wore grey, as Confederates, some people believe we're lying. Hardly. Different people have different interpretations of history, & in some cases truth.

Bill Clinton got on national TV, & said, "I did not have sexual relations with that woman, Ms Lewinksy". Even though he had his thumb to his slightly bent forefinger pointing with authority, & even the eye squint for good measure, he was lying. Not, stretching the truth, not a misguided interpretation, a bold face lie. He then proceeded to lie to investigators. If not for Linda Tripp, & the fact Monica hadn't washed her dress, he'd probably have gotten away with it. Instead we had to hear about cigars in the oval office. That's an example of a lie, & or liar. Bold face, 100% knowingly telling a falsehood.

Much of what we discuss in history, can't be proven 100%. Much is left up to interpretation. Besides known events, much of the individual stories are subjectively interpreted. Some folks are more open minded than others. I believe people are unique, & we all march to different drum beats so to speak. The same was true 150+ yrs ago. Yet, some folks are gonna believe what they want to believe regardless of evidence. I mean, there's folks out there who actually believe OJ was innocent :eek:
Let's respect the moderation and avoid modern politics here (I made that mistake myself).

Though I get your point and agree to some extent. Though I think we need to distinguish between lies and ignorance (people just getting things wrong), or potentially even lies of ignorance. Also everyone lies is not a defense for everything, even if I think it's a good defense for basic lies or people getting basic things wrong.

Tracing the responses back I wold caution anyone from generalizing the SCV via one members statements, unfortunately there seems to be quite a few SCV members that might give other members a bad name. I personally considered joining (and haven't rule it out completely either) but each time I research them I find quite a bit that's disconcerting (even if I'm sure there's a lot that is perfectly fine and just surrounding the studying and respecting of ancestors etc). I'm not knowledgeable enough to make anything broad.

Personally I'm a fan of getting into specifics (though avoiding modern politics in the general forum is probably a good idea for any of us) in this case and the origination in this thread is
http://cwmemory.com/2019/09/17/the-baghdad-bob-of-the-civil-war/

Reading the specific comments talked about from a specific individual I find it hard to believe you would defend his statements, correct me if I'm wrong. Normally when I hear of people perpetuating a "racial paradise" I suspect it's either ignorance (maybe not lying), but often depending on how strongly they perpetuate something they clearly aren't educated on I lean towards lies of ignorance. Along the lines of you are clearly ignorant in this topic but you either don't have an excuse to or shouldn't be talking with that certainty if you are.

It's hard not to read that comment and especially the comments at the end and not get a strong racist (African tribesmen and lying vibe (at least a lying through ignorance), do you disagree? Does his statement represent all SCV members, of course not, does it represent a large portion? I have no clue, maybe you or someone else can comment on the veracity of his statement and if it represents many SCV views (whoever has knowledge of such things).
 

O' Be Joyful

ohio hillbilly
Joined
May 12, 2019
Messages
3,491
Reaction score
3,136
Though I get your point and agree to some extent. Though I think we need to distinguish between lies and ignorance (people just getting things wrong), or potentially even lies of ignorance. Also everyone lies is not a defense for everything, even if I think it's a good defense for basic lies or people getting basic things wrong.

Agreed.

And, I am not disregarding the totality of your post.
 
Top