Levin on Silas and Andrew Chandler

jgoodguy

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Has Levin written on Silas and Andrew Chandler?

Let us take a look.

First up is
Getting Right With Silas and Andrew Chandler
  1. There is no evidence that the two were childhood friends.
  2. The weapons in this photograph were likely studio props. In fact, Silas’s uniform may also have been a prop.
  3. There is no evidence that Silas saved Andrew’s leg in a hospital.
  4. As to why Silas never ran away, ... he had a wife and newborn baby back in Mississippi.
Like most of the stories I explore in my book, we know very little about their relationship. What is shared in the historical record almost always comes through the pen of the slaveowner,... When Andrew Chandler came around to writing his own account of the war for Confederate Veteran magazine he made no mention of Silas. The story of Silas saving Andrew’s leg supposedly took place at Chickamauga.

PBS transcrip http://www-tc.pbs.org/opb/historyde...anscripts/2011-10-07/912_chandler-tintype.pdf

 

5fish

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Here is wiki thoughts on Silas ... he was just a slave... click on the link:

Silas Chandler - Wikipedia

Snip... He went back to war with the other brother...

Silas was with Benjamin Chandler when he was a part of a detached escort of guards for Confederate President Jefferson Davis when Davis fled Richmond, Virginia. On May 7, 1865, Chandler was a part of that escort which was ordered to disband in order for Davis' escort to be less conspicuous as secrecy became paramount due to the collapse of the Confederacy.[1] Some in the Chandler family later claimed that Silas's service showed his loyalty to the white members of the family, although, others point to his desire to keep in touch with his wife and the birth of his first son, William Henry, during the war as the cause of his loyalty.[3]
 

jgoodguy

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Here is wiki thoughts on Silas ... he was just a slave...

Silas Chandler - Wikipedia

Snip... He went back to war with the other brother...

Silas was with Benjamin Chandler when he was a part of a detached escort of guards for Confederate President Jefferson Davis when Davis fled Richmond, Virginia. On May 7, 1865, Chandler was a part of that escort which was ordered to disband in order for Davis' escort to be less conspicuous as secrecy became paramount due to the collapse of the Confederacy.[1] Some in the Chandler family later claimed that Silas's service showed his loyalty to the white members of the family, although, others point to his desire to keep in touch with his wife and the birth of his first son, William Henry, during the war as the cause of his loyalty.[3]
Mixed motives most movating.

Family, rewards and coercion. Point is that it was not a free association.
 

jgoodguy

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Getting Right With Silas and Andrew Chandler

Another point that is often lost is that Silas followed Andrew’s brother Benjamin during the last year of the war. This fact reinforces the point that Silas was there to serve his masters, which included both brothers equally.

Andy Hall Dec 30, 2018 @ 7:34
The old Confederate Veteran magazine regularly ran stories of “faithful slaves” saving their masters from the battlefield, bringing them home, etc., so it’s passing strange that Silas Chandler’s supposed service to Andrew Chandler didn’t make it into print there, especially if (as we are told in the legend) that they remained friends for years after the war.
 

jgoodguy

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No Mention of Silas Chandler

Thanks to Andy Hall for passing along the following items from Confederate Veteran. The first is Andrew M. Chandler’s obituary from the July 1920 issue. It includes a reference to his severe wounding at Chickamauga, but there is no reference to Silas.

What about an account written by Andrew himself about his experience at Chickamauga for Confederate Veteran? Keep in mind that this publication is littered with references to loyal former body servants/slaves, who rescued and saved their masters on the field of battle. To be fair, Andrew doesn’t mention his wounding at all; rather, he uses the opportunity to share the experience of battle.

I will leave you with the words of Chandler Battaile, great-great-grandson of Andrew M. Chandler, which helped to close out the History Detectives investigation.

I think it’s interesting to understand the place of stories in family histories. Obviously, the story that we’ve shared is one that is very comfortable, and comforting to believe. But without documentary evidence, it is a story. Our families’ histories have been, and will always be, deeply intertwined and evolving with the times.

upload_2019-11-19_14-38-10.png

upload_2019-11-19_14-39-37.png
 

jgoodguy

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No Mention of Silas Chandler
Andy Hall Oct 13, 2011 @ 6:02
That would be interesting to see. It may corroborate some of the traditional account of Andrew Chandler’s wounding, but I’ll bet medium-sized money that it’s framed, like so many other accounts of that period, as another “faithful slave” narrative.

Here’s an interesting question to chew on — suppose the newspaper story, written decades after the events, repeats some of the claims that are debunked by the contemporary documentary records, like the alleged transfer of the church? Does that nullify the validity of such documents, or merely show that the warm-and-fuzzy narrative passed down in the family was established early on?

  • Kevin Levin Oct 13, 2011 @ 6:18
    I agree on both counts and good question as well. It would be nice to have access to an account that involved Silas, but even if it did we would have to inquire as to whether he was in a position to disagree. After all, this is about the time that he applied for his pension as a slave, which suggests that the family had hit hard financial times. More than likely the article’s content – like the vast majority of accounts from this period – did not include the input of their former slaves.
Myra Chandler Sampson Oct 13, 2011 @ 6:47
In the biography of Andrew M. Chandler, there is no mention of Silas​
Clay County MSGenWeb: Andrew M. Chandler

Clay County MSGenWeb: Andrew M. Chandler
Andrew M. Chandler Biography

Source: Rowland, Dunbar, ed. Mississippi: Comprising Sketches of Counties, Towns, Events, Institutions, and Persons, Arranged in Cyclopedic Form. Atlanta: Southern Historical Publishing, 1907. Vol. III, Pages 135-137.
Chandler, Andrew M., is a native of Clay county, a member of one of its honored pioneer families, and is one of its successful planters and popular citizens. His also is the distinction of having rendered gallant service as a soldier of the Confederacy in the war between the States, and in the private walks of life his fidelity and integrity have been as distinctively in evidence as was his loyalty during the dark period of the Civil war. He was born on the homestead plantation, in Clay county, April 3, 1844, and is a son of Roy and Louisa (Garner) Chandler, the former of whom was born in Virginia, in 1814, and the latter in Fayetteville, Tenn., in 1810. Roy Chandler was a grandson of Timothy Chandler, who was a soldier in the Continental line during the War of the Revolution, and was a son of Willis Chandler, who passed his entire life in the Old Dominion State. The Chandler lineage traces to staunch English origin, and the progenitors in America were three brothers, one of whom settled in Massachusetts, one in Kentucky and the third in Virginia, the last mentioned being the direct ancestor of the subject of this sketch. Louisa (Garner) Chandler was a daughter of Brice M. Garner, who served under General Jackson in the War of 1812, taking part in the battle of New Orleans, and having previously served under the same commander in the Indian wars in Alabama. In 1839 Roy Chandler came from Virginia to Mississippi, and in 1841 he purchased 320 acres of land in Clay county, later disposing of this property and purchasing another tract, of 640 acres. In 1849 he bought another plantation of the same area, now the residence of his son, B. S. Chandler, Sr., who entered the Confederate service in 1862, serving under Forrest and Wheeler, in Miller's Mississippi cavalry, which command formed a part of President Davis' escort, surrendering at Washington, Ga., May, 1865. Here Roy passed the remainder of his life, honored by all who knew him. He met his death in 1854, having been thrown from a horse and received injuries which resulted in his death. His widow survived until 1867. After the death of the mother the sons owned all of the property in common until the incumbrance of $10,000, assumed by their mother prior to the Civil war, had been paid through their earnest and persistent efforts. The subject of this sketch then bought the plantation of 320 acres which his father had first secured, his uncle having been the owner at the time of this transfer, and he has since added to his landed estate until he has 1,280 acres, being one of the successful planters of this part of the State and having a home of which he may well be proud. The father was a member of the Masonic fraternity and his religous views were in harmony with the tenets of the Baptist church which he regularly attended, his wife having been a devout member of the Christian church. Andrew M. Chandler secured his fundamental education in the common schools of his native county and thereafter continued his studies in Summerville institute, a well ordered institution conducted by Prof. T. S. Gathright, in Noxubee county. He was aiding in the management of the home plantation at the time when the gruesome pall of Civil war began to obscure the national horizon. He promptly manifested his loyalty to the cause of the South, having enlisted as a private in the company raised at Palo Alto, in August, 1861, and mustered into the Confederate service as Company F, Forty-fourth Mississippi infantry, under Col. A. K. Blythe and Capt. D. F. Coopwood. He proceeded with his command to the front and was always to be found at the post of duty during the long and weary struggle and turbulent warfare which ensued. He was never reprimanded or received punishment of any sort during his entire military careera fact whose significance is unmistakable. Among the engagements in which he participated may be mentioned Belmont, Shiloh, Murfreesboro, and Chickamauga. At Murfreesboro he was promoted second sergeant, for gallantry and uniformly good conduct on field and in camp. In the battle of Chickamauga he received a wound in the right leg, the injury being such as to cripple him for life, but he continued in service until the close of the war, though several times tendered an honorable discharge. He received his parole, at Columbus, Miss., in June, 1865. He is a member of the United Confederate Veterans and is held in high esteem by his old comrades in arms. In politics Mr. Chandler gives an unswerving support to the Democratic party, and he served four years as justice of the peace, having been appointed by Governor Alcorn and having accepted the office only at the earnest solicitation of his many friends. He is affiliated with the Knights of Honor and both he and his wife are zealous members of the Christian church. On Feb. 6, 1866, Mr. Chandler was united in marriage to Miss Fannie Ivy, daughter of Sterling G. and Isabelle (Gates) Ivy, of Chickasaw county, and she was summoned to the life eternal March 14, 1878. Following is a brief record concerning the children of this marriage: Roy H. is engaged in the wholesale dry goods and grocery business in West Point; Benjamin Sterling is associated with his elder brother in the enterprise noted; Thomas K. is a retail grocer in West Point; Loubelle is the wife of John H. Turkville, of Jackson, this State; and Andrew M., Jr., is a carrier on a rural free delivery route from West Point. All of the children were born in the same dwelling but in three different counties, as the homestead was originally in that part of Chickasaw county which was later made Colfax county, and still later Clay county. In November, 1880, Mr. Chandler contracted a second marriage, being then united to Miss Rowena Coopwood, daughter of William C. Coopwood, of Clay County, and the only child of this union is Mary Ivy, wife of W. Harry Dodenhoff, of West Point.
http://msgw.org/clay/chandler.html
http://msgw.org/clay/chandler.html
 

Andersonh1

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Interesting to put the pictures of young and old Andrew Chandler side by side.

 

5fish

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He was taken Prisoner at Shiloh. I wonder what Silas did during this period and how they reconnected... Silas was 6 years older than Andrew and was already married and had childre.
 

jgoodguy

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The Loyalty of Silas Chandler
By Levin and
Myra Chandler Sampson is a descendant of Silas who lives in Texas.

P32

Unfortunately, no source in Silas’ own voice has
been found to show how he viewed the war as a
whole or his role in it. But in recent years, self-
serving speculation has increasingly filled in the
gaps. The famous image of Silas armed and in uni-
form alongside Andrew, shown on pages 32-33,
has so far proved the most powerful ingredient in
promoting the legend of Silas as a Rebel soldier.
Though the photo is undated, it was likely taken
around the time the men left Mississippi. But the
image actually begs more questions than it
answers. Chandler’s military-style jacket and
weaponry are assumed to testify to his status as
a soldier. But in fact it wasn’t uncommon for
body servants to be issued military clothing. And
the shotgun, large knives and small pistol shown
in the picture could just as easily have been a
photographer’s props as a soldier’s weapons.

Speculation also surrounds Silas’ status at
beginning of the war. Several websites, such as
Desert Rose Films’, claim that Silas “received
free papers just before the war began” but chose
to remain with the Chandler family because he
had a close relationship with Andrew. No legal
documents have surfaced to support that claim.
Moreover, the Manumission Law of 1842 made
illegal for a slave to be freed in Mississippi.
 
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jgoodguy

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The Loyalty of Silas Chandler
By Levin and
Myra Chandler Sampson is a descendant of Silas who lives in Texas.

There were some family traditions, but unsupported by documentation.

P34

What became of Silas
Chandler then? Some
advocates for the black
Confederates theory have looked at
the postwar lives of Andrew and
Silas for evidence they maintained
a strong relationship through
Reconstruction and the Jim Crow era. Andrew
Chandler Battaile, a descendant of Andrew who
recently appeared on an episode of the TV show
Antiques Roadshow, suggested the two men
remained lifelong friends. He also claimed that
Andrew donated land to Silas to build a church. A
“Black Confederates” website repeats that claim,
stating, “the Chandler family gave Silas land
after the war.

Land records in the Chancery Clerk’s office in
West Point, Miss., do not record any donation of
property to Silas. They do indicate that Silas and
his wife, Lucy, purchased some land and paid off
their debt. Silas never owned any land in Palo
where the Chandler plantation was located.
An interesting comment. For some strange reasons, advocates of a 'relationship' seem to focus on the white slave owner, rather than Silas.

Silas became a successful businessman, build-
ing many houses in and around West Point as well
as the town’s first courthouse. He helped start the
first African-American Church in West Point. He
was a member of the Masons. And his descendants
went on to become physicians, engineers, ministers
and school administrators. Impressive as they are,
none of those accomplishments are mentioned in
the websites that purport to honor Silas Chandler.​

 

jgoodguy

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While I eagerly await the Abbeville article on how Levin missed a mountain of evidence, there seems to be none. We may have the words of the white slaveowner and his descendants, but none from Silas. It may be that mixed motives muddled events or not.
 

Tom

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"Andrew Chandler Battaile, a descendant of Andrew who recently appeared on an episode of the TV show
Antiques Roadshow, suggested the two men remained lifelong friends. He also claimed that Andrew donated
land to Silas to build a church. A 'Black Confederates' website repeats that claim, stating, 'the Chandler family
gave Silas land after the war.'

That's not exactly the same claim.

Land records in the Chancery Clerk’s office in West Point, Miss., do not record any donation of property to Silas.
They do indicate that Silas and his wife, Lucy, purchased some land and paid off their debt. Silas never owned any
land in Palo where the Chandler plantation was located."


Battaile in Black Southerners in Gray sez "Andrew gave him some land and the money to build a church." He does not say he gave Silas land for his own personal use.

It would be necessary to look at the land records of that church to know what transactions took place. A deed to a church may list several grantees (the group establishing the church).
 
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jgoodguy

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"Andrew Chandler Battaile, a descendant of Andrew who recently appeared on an episode of the TV show
Antiques Roadshow, suggested the two men remained lifelong friends. He also claimed that Andrew donated
land to Silas to build a church. A 'Black Confederates' website repeats that claim, stating, 'the Chandler family
gave Silas land after the war.'

That's not exactly the same claim.

Land records in the Chancery Clerk’s office in West Point, Miss., do not record any donation of property to Silas.
They do indicate that Silas and his wife, Lucy, purchased some land and paid off their debt. Silas never owned any
land in Palo where the Chandler plantation was located."


Battaile in Black Southerners in Gray sez "Andrew gave him some land and the money to build a church." He does not say he gave Silas land for his own personal use.

It would be necessary to look at the land records of that church to know what transactions took place. A deed to a church may list several grantees (the group establishing the church).
In short, there is no documentary evidence to support a claim, any claim that the former white slaveowner helped Silas. There is equal documentary evidence that green aliens helped Silas. We appreciate your opinions.
 

Tom

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In short, there is no documentary evidence to support a claim, any claim that the former white slaveowner helped Silas.
He was witness on his pension application. Isn't that help?

And we would have to check the land records of the church.
 

jgoodguy

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He was witness on his pension application. Isn't that help?

And we would have to check the land records of the church.
Thanks for mentioning that, it is a motive for Silas to be subservient to his old master to get the pension.

Let me know about the land records.
 

Joshism

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We may have the words of the white slaveowner and his descendants
Conveniently, descendants of slaveowners seem to always descendants of benevolent slaveowners who have stories of how well their ancestors treated their slaves. I don't think in 5+ years on CWT that I ever saw someone say "my ancestors beat and raped their slaves with impunity and I'm quite embarrassed by them."
 

Andersonh1

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Thanks for mentioning that, it is a motive for Silas to be subservient to his old master to get the pension.
That is a warrantless assumption on your part. Provide the evidence that Silas was subservient.
 

jgoodguy

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That is a warrantless assumption on your part. Provide the evidence that Silas was subservient.
So Silas could demand something from his ex master just like a white man in the Jim Crow era? Silas had the same rights as a white man?
 

Viper21

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Conveniently, descendants of slaveowners seem to always descendants of benevolent slaveowners who have stories of how well their ancestors treated their slaves. I don't think in 5+ years on CWT that I ever saw someone say "my ancestors beat and raped their slaves with impunity and I'm quite embarrassed by them."
Reality is.... few know. There's lots of assumptions but, rarely are they backed up with facts, or specific evidence.

I have multiple ancestors who were slave owners. I've never seen any evidence either way. I literally have no idea if they were benevolent, or ruthless, & harsh.
 
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