Marie Kelsey's critique of Chernow's use of sources in "Grant"

Carmel

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Highly Selective Use of Primary Sources in Chernow's Grant Support his Thesis that Grant was an Alcoholic

A tweet by the thoughtful and eloquent public historian Nick Sacco brought to my attention this project by Marie Kelsey, who studies the Civil War, particularly Ulysses S. Grant, but says she is not a Civil War scholar. Kelsey has begun a fact-checking project on Ron Chernow's use (often misuse) of primary sources in his biography of Grant, particularly around the drinking issue.

I was delighted a couple of years ago to see another biography of Grant that treats him as an intelligent person, and on the whole found the book highly readable and interesting. However, I was not alone in my disappointment with Chernow's obsession with Grant's drinking, and questioned some of his sources, as did many others. Kelsey is undertaking a rexeamination of the primary sources Chernow uses. She has finished the first few chapters and plans to continue this project this Fall.

Among the misuses Kelsey has identified are issues with selective partial quotes, where Chernow uses the part that supports his thesis that Grant was an alcoholic and not the part that contradicts it, and the use of eyewitness accounts from people who could not have been where they said they were. She has checked Cullum's Register, which publishes the history of all West Point graduates, to show that sometimes the fellow officer Chernow quotes had not actually served at Fort Vancouver at the same time as Ulysses S. Grant. (I imagine that once he became famous there were many who wanted to claim to have known him.)

Another misuse is the citation of current webpages on alcoholism as if they were primary sources. One example is an 1852 letter by Grant to Julia from the Columbia barracks in Oregon in which he mentions cramps in his feet and hands due to the cold, wet weather. Chernow quotes from the letter, then follows up with quotes from a website about alcoholic neuropathy, making the leap in logic that the cramps were due to alcoholic neuropathy rather than to the fact that Grant worked long hours outdoors in the cold and damp. The footnote he provides is just a website called Healthline.

On numerous occasions in Grant Chernow repeats a rumor about Grant, states that it's discredited, but nonetheless repeats it in detail. Absurdly, Chernow repeats a rumour that Grant fathered a child by a Native American woman. In this case Kelsey traces the rumor to a completely different "Captain Grant" who served on the West Coast at the time and shared only the same common last name with the subject of his biography.

Kelsey says that she plans to continue her investigation, as she has only covered the very early chapters. I wrote her a note to thank her for her valuable contribution to the discussion.
 

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Highly Selective Use of Primary Sources in Chernow's Grant Support his Thesis that Grant was an Alcoholic

A tweet by the thoughtful and eloquent public historian Nick Sacco brought to my attention this project by Marie Kelsey, who studies the Civil War, particularly Ulysses S. Grant, but says she is not a Civil War scholar. Kelsey has begun a fact-checking project on Ron Chernow's use (often misuse) of primary sources in his biography of Grant, particularly around the drinking issue.

I was delighted a couple of years ago to see another biography of Grant that treats him as an intelligent person, and on the whole found the book highly readable and interesting. However, I was not alone in my disappointment with Chernow's obsession with Grant's drinking, and questioned some of his sources, as did many others. Kelsey is undertaking a rexeamination of the primary sources Chernow uses. She has finished the first few chapters and plans to continue this project this Fall.

Among the misuses Kelsey has identified are issues with selective partial quotes, where Chernow uses the part that supports his thesis that Grant was an alcoholic and not the part that contradicts it, and the use of eyewitness accounts from people who could not have been where they said they were. She has checked Cullum's Register, which publishes the history of all West Point graduates, to show that sometimes the fellow officer Chernow quotes had not actually served at Fort Vancouver at the same time as Ulysses S. Grant. (I imagine that once he became famous there were many who wanted to claim to have known him.)

Another misuse is the citation of current webpages on alcoholism as if they were primary sources. One example is an 1852 letter by Grant to Julia from the Columbia barracks in Oregon in which he mentions cramps in his feet and hands due to the cold, wet weather. Chernow quotes from the letter, then follows up with quotes from a website about alcoholic neuropathy, making the leap in logic that the cramps were due to alcoholic neuropathy rather than to the fact that Grant worked long hours outdoors in the cold and damp. The footnote he provides is just a website called Healthline.

On numerous occasions in Grant Chernow repeats a rumor about Grant, states that it's discredited, but nonetheless repeats it in detail. Absurdly, Chernow repeats a rumour that Grant fathered a child by a Native American woman. In this case Kelsey traces the rumor to a completely different "Captain Grant" who served on the West Coast at the time and shared only the same common last name with the subject of his biography.

Kelsey says that she plans to continue her investigation, as she has only covered the very early chapters. I wrote her a note to thank her for her valuable contribution to the discussion.
Hope to see more info.
 

5fish

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Seems interesting.
From wiki... there both pro and con about Hamilton/Laurens on the internet...

Stating that "one must tread gingerly in approaching this matter," Hamilton biographer Ron Chernow wrote that it is impossible to say "with any certainty" that Laurens and Hamilton were lovers, noting that such an affair would have required the exercise of "extraordinary precautions" because sodomy was a capital offense throughout the colonies at the time.[30] Chernow concluded that based on available evidence, "At the very least, we can say that Hamilton developed something like an adolescent crush on his friend."[30] According to Chernow, "Hamilton did not form friendships easily and never again revealed his interior life to another man as he had to Laurens", and after Laurens' death, "Hamilton shut off some compartment of his emotions and never reopened it."[30]

Love letters... http://rictornorton.co.uk/hamilton.htm

But Grant: You was told the New York newspapers implied an affair between Grant and Badeau during the time Badeau was suing the Grant family... You have access to those New York Newspapers...
 

5fish

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The source you quote is yourself saying the same thing on Civil War Talk.
Yes, because it's the only place you will find the info organized about Adam Badeau... Brooks Simpson mention Adam Badeau sexual orientation in his bio of Grant... History has ignored Grant's and Badeau's relationship even thou historians say Badeau was his closes friend and aid during the war...
 

5fish

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What does Badeau being gay have to do with anything? This is a thread for Chernow"s sources.
Because historians know about Badeau sexual orientation and his close relationship with Grant but they all chose not to explore it or mention in thier bios of General Grant...
 

Joshism

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I'm reading Brooks Simpson's biography of Grant preparatory to reading Chernow, especially because Simpson took a really hard look at Grant's drinking and found most of the evidence sketchy.
 

Joshism

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Because historians know about Badeau sexual orientation and his close relationship with Grant but they all chose not to explore it or mention in thier bios of General Grant...
So any man who is close friends with a gay man should be suspected of being gay himself?
 

5fish

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I'm reading Brooks Simpson's biography of Grant preparatory to reading Chernow, especially because Simpson took a really hard look at Grant's drinking and found most of the evidence sketchy.
I do not know what Simpson wrote about Grant and his Desdemona moment in Texas. Before his Desdemona moment his nickname was "beauty" and his whole regiment not just a few wanted him to play the part. It not because he was a small man for he was normal height in 180s. He was hurt by the whole event...

Here is the kicker after his Desdemona moment was over he grew a bread , started smoking, and drinking. Until, that event Grant was not a drinker or smoker so the question. Why would his whole regiment wanted him to play Desdemona ? I guess he had female mannerism... Which he chose to hide behind manly behaviors...
 

5fish

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So any man who is close friends with a gay man should be suspected of being gay himself?
He also buddies with cavalry man James Wilson another know gay man. It was Wilson who suggested Badeau to Grant. In James Wilson wrote and that Grant like young men around his headquarters. Badeau wrote in his last book on Grant that he and Grant shared things few men share...

It also know that Grant's family edited his letters after his death...
 

5fish

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close friends with a gay man
I do not why LGBTQ historians do not play up Badeau…. WE have a 19th century gay man whose best buds with the man who wins the Civil War and future President. His circle of friends included John Wilks Booth and his brother Edwin Booth (Greatest Stage actor of his generation). He was at the signing of Lee's surrender... He was not a nice person many wonder why Grant and him were buds...
 

O' Be Joyful

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I love your provocateur sense, which I recognized awhile back.

But, "come" on!!!
 

Joshism

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James Wilson, he of a grudge against Grant by the time he was writing about the general?
 

5fish

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But, "come" on!!!
Wait... As far as I know Grant's whole getting run out of the army while in California has never been fully explained. If it was over drinking, I guess back than he could have beaten those charges for I have run accoss a lot of men back thrn that claim drunkeness and given a pass.

My guess there more to the story that history has chosen to bury... You know Grant in command surrounded by young soldiers , hummm....
 

5fish

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James Wilson, he of a grudge against Grant by the time he was writing about the general?
I did not know Wilson had a grudge with Grant. I do know he suggested to Grant, Badeau. Grant had Badeau resigned to his headquarters.

It is known Wilson and Badeau had a relationship...
 

5fish

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When you start trying the threads together a conspiracy begins to be seen...
 
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