5fish
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Do you have the full url that I can post elsewhere?
Thanks
Kirk's Raiders
I will PM you....
Do you have the full url that I can post elsewhere?
Thanks
Kirk's Raiders
Do you know the American Black history in WW1 I found a short summary...Confederacy actually employed black soldiers or not and if so in what quantity.
as the men always could be from everywhere on the planet they hardly counthow about the french & the Spanish Forreign Legions where natives could only be officers?
Hmm....but I am certain that you do not intend it that way.as the men always could be from everywhere on the planet they hardly count
Hmm....but I am certain that you do not intend it that way.
Yes I did. There were some rots in the US involving black troops stationed in the South who were treated harshly by their white Southern officers and local law enforcement.Do you know the American Black history in WW1 I found a short summary...
LINK: https://www.army.mil/article/199913...ters_proved_their_mettle_patriotism_in_combat
Snip...
After some three months of labor constructing nearby railways to move supplies forward, the Soldiers learned that they had orders to join the French 16th Division for three weeks of combat training.
They also learned they had a new regimental number as the now-renamed 369th Infantry Regiment. Not that it mattered much to the Soldiers; they still carried their nickname from New York, the Black Rattlers, and carried their regimental flag of the 15th New York Infantry everywhere they went in France.
While the 369th Infantry would become part of the U.S. Army's 92nd Infantry Division, it would be assigned to fight with French forces. This solved the dilemma for Pershing and the American Expeditionary Forces of what to do with the African-American troops.
The black troops would see combat, but alongside French forces, who were already accustomed to the many races and ethnicities already serving in the ranks of their colonial troops.
"The French army instructors literally welcomed their African American trainees as comrades in arms," Sammons wrote. "To the pragmatic French army instructors, the Soldiers were Americans, black Americans, to be trained for combat within their ranks. The trainees clearly excelled at their tasks."
After learning valuable lessons in trench warfare from their French partners, the Soldiers of the 369th finally had their chance to prove their worth as combat troops when they entered the front lines, holding their line against the last German spring offensive near Chateau-Thierry.
Their value was not lost on the French, and the regiment continued to fight alongside French forces, participating in the Aisne-Marne counter offensive in the summer of 1918 alongside the French 162nd Infantry Division.
The Hell Fighters from Harlem had come into their own, in spite of their difficult start.
The regiment would go on to prove itself in combat operations throughout the rest of the war, receiving the French highest honor, the Croix de Guerre, for its unit actions, alongside some 171 individual decorations for heroism.
Snip... It was music that frees them to fight...
The regiment's best advocate was their commander, Col. William Hayward.
"It was time for us to try to do something towards extricating ourselves from the dirty mess of pick-swinging and wheel barrel trundling that we were in," Hayward had said to Capt. Arthur Little, commander of the regimental band, according to Jeffrey Sammons in his 2014 book "Harlem's Rattlers and the Great War."
"We had come to France as combat troops, and, apparently, we were in danger of becoming labor troops," Hayward said.
Hayward argued his case in a letter to General Pershing, outlining the regiments' mobilization and training, and followed up immediately with a personal visit to Pershing's headquarters.
He would bring with him the regiment's most formidable weapon in swaying opinion: the regimental band, lauded as one of the finest in the entire Expeditionary Force.
While the regiment literally laid the tracks for the arrival of the two million troops deploying to France, the regimental band toured the region, performing for French and American audiences at rest centers and hospitals. The 369th Band was unlike any other performance audiences had seen or heard before, noted Harris. The regimental band is credited with introducing jazz music to France during the war.
The military band would frequently perform a French march, followed by traditional band scores such as John Philip Sousa's "Stars and Stripes Forever."
"And then came the fireworks," said Sgt. Noble Sissle, band vocalist and organizer, in the Harris account, as the 369th Band would play as if they were in a jazz club back in Harlem.
I was actually wondering about how twell they fought with French ..Yes I did.
The black troops preformed well. Unfortunately it didn't really matter because the US military would have racist officer's until policy changes by the mud 1970s.I was actually wondering about how twell they fought with French ..
Would these not list as segregated units...Kirk's Raider's
no way - just international volunteersWould these not list as segregated units...
International Brigades - Wikipedia
The International Brigades were not racially segregated. The Abraham Lincoln Brigade was arguably the first American intergrated infantry unit although it was not part of the American military but of course it was composed of US citizens.Would these not list as segregated units...
International Brigades - Wikipedia
The International Brigades (Spanish: Brigadas Internacionales) were paramilitary units set up by the Communist International to assist the Popular Front government of the Second Spanish Republic during the Spanish Civil War. The organisation existed for two years, from 1936 until 1938. It is estimated that during the entire war, between 40,000 and 59,000 members served in the International Brigades, including 15,000 who died in combat.[1]
The International Brigades was strongly supported by the Comintern and represented the Soviet Union's commitment to provide assistance to the Spanish Republic (with arms, logistics, military advisers and the NKVD), just as Fascist Italy, Corporatist Portugal and Nazi Germany were providing assistance to the opposing Nationalist insurgency.[3] The largest number of volunteers came from France (where the French Communist Party had many members) and communist exiles from Italy and Germany. Many Jews from the English-speaking world and Eastern Europe also participated.[4] Republican volunteers who were opposed to Stalinism did not join the Brigades but instead enlisted in the separate Popular Front, the POUM, formed from Trotskyist, Bukharinist and other anti-Stalinist groups, which did not separate Spaniards and foreign volunteers (such as George Orwell),[5] or anarcho-syndicalist groups such as the Durruti Column, the IWA and the CNT.
This Snip...
XI International Brigade - Wikipedia
The XI International Brigade fought for the Spanish Second Republic in the Spanish Civil War.
It would become especially renowned for providing desperately needed support in the darkest hours of the Republican defense of Madrid on 8 November 1936, when, with great losses, it helped repulse a major assault by veteran Nationalist troops, buying time for more Republican troops to be brought into the city.[1]
It was originally mustered from international volunteers at Albacete, Spain, in mid-October 1936 as the IX Brigada Movíl, with four battalions:
It was redesignated the 'XI "Hans Beimler" International Brigade' on 22 October 1936, with General "Kléber" (Manfred Stern) commanding.[2] The original battalions were renamed as follows:
- Franco-Belgian Battalion (14 Oct 1936)
- Austro-German Battalion (14 Oct 1936)
- Italo-Spanish Battalion (14 Oct 1936)
- Polish-Balkan Battalion (17 Oct 1936)
Shortly after the formation of XII International Brigade in November, 1936, its Thälmann Battalion and the Garibaldi Battalion (which had no rifles) swapped places.
- The Franco-Belgian battalion, led by Jules Dumont, became the Commune de Paris Battalion[3]
- The Austro-German battalion, led by Hans Kahle, became the Edgar André Battalion, (after Edgar André).[4]
- The Italo-Spanish battalion became the Garibaldi Battalion, (after Giuseppe Garibaldi).
- The Polish-Balkan battalion, led by Boleslav Ulanovski, became the Dabrowski Battalion (pronounced "Dombrowski"), (after Jarosław Dąbrowski).[5]
Other units that formed part of XI International Brigade at other times were:
The brigade fought in the battles of Madrid, the Corunna Road,[6] Jarama,[7] Guadalajara,[8] Brunete,[9]Belchite, Teruel,[10] and the Ebro.[11] After the death of Hans Beimler the energetic Giuseppe Di Vittorio became the political commissar.
- Asturias-Heredia Battalion
- Hans Beimler Battalion
- Madrid Battalion
- Pacifico Battalion
- Pasionaria Battalion
- Zwölfter Februar Battalion
no way - just international volunteers
But they are segregated from the Spanish Rep. Units. and made up of none natives.The International Brigades were not racially segregated. The Abraham Lincoln Brigade was arguably the first American intergrated infantry unit although it was not part of the American military but of course it was composed of US citizens.
The International Brigades even had an Afro American fighter pilot who after Spain tried to warn the US Army Airforce about the new German Me-109 aircraft but was given the bums rush.
Kirk's Raiders
to be segregated they needed to be part of the republican army - they were not.But they are segregated from the Spanish Rep. Units. and made up of none natives.
Is not an issue of segregation from the majority nationality, ethic, or race...
The volunteers were not mercenaries. They didn't get paid or if they did it was almost nothing.We have the American Abraham Lincoln brigade...
Lincoln Battalion - Wikipedia
The Lincoln Battalion was the 17th (later the 58th) battalion of the XV International Brigade, a mixed brigade of the International Brigades also known as Abraham Lincoln Brigade (Spanish: Brigada Abraham Lincoln). It was formed by a group of communist volunteers from the United States who served in the Spanish Civil War as soldiers, technicians, medical personnel and aviators fighting for Spanish Republican forces against the forces of General Francisco Franco and his Nationalist faction. The Lincoln Brigade was a mercenary force integrating white and black volunteers on an equal basis. Of the approximately 3,015 volunteers from the US, 681 were killed in action or died of wounds or sickness.[1]
Units[edit]
Flag of one of the military units of the Lincoln Battalion[11]
20th Battalion, 86th Brigade[edit]
An American company served in the 20th International Battalion that was attached to the 86th Mixed Brigade. This unit fought on the Cordoba Front. Most of the American volunteers were transferred from the unit to the XVth Brigade prior to the Brunete Offensive.[12]
The George Washington Battalion[edit]
The Washington Battalion was the second American battalion. The unit was merged with the Lincoln Battalion during the Brunete Campaign. It was commanded by Mirko Markovics and its commissar was Dave Mates.[13]
The MacKenzie-Papineau Battalion[edit]
Two-thirds of the nominally Canadian unit were Americans. Its first commander was Robert Thompson, an American veteran of the Lincoln Battalion. Joseph Dallet, also American, was the first Commissar.[14]
2nd Squadron, First Regiment de Tren[edit]
The Regiment de Tren was a transportation unit providing support to the Republican forces. The Second Squadron was predominately American. The commander was Durward Clark.
The John Brown Battery[edit]
This unit's official title was the 14th Battery, 2nd Group, 11th Regiment. It was a heavy artillery unit manning 155mm guns. The battery commander was Arthur Timpson, with Jack Waters as Commissar.[15]
4th Group, 35th Battery[edit]
This unit initially manned 155mm guns but were later equipped with 45mm anti-tank guns and were included in the 129th International Brigade. The battery commander was Nathan Budish, and his Commissar was Sid Kaufman.
American Medical Bureau
That's like saying the British Army was segregated from the US Army in WW2. It's not practical to integrate no. Spanish troops into the Spanish Army . It's far easier to put foreign troops in separate units.But they are segregated from the Spanish Rep. Units. and made up of none natives.
Is not an issue of segregation from the majority nationality, ethic, or race...
to be segregated they needed to be part of the republican army - they were not.
I want to point out they were part of the Spanish 35th Division which makes them part of the Spanish army... and segregated.... It's not practical to integrate no.