Other Segregated militaries and challenges of integration

5fish

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What about the french ...
Senegalese Tirailleurs - Wikipedia
The Senegalese Tirailleurs (French: Tirailleurs Sénégalais) were a corps of colonial infantry in the French Army. They were initially recruited from Senegal, French West Africa and subsequently throughout Western, Central and Eastern Africa: the main sub-Saharan regions of the French colonial empire.[1] The noun tirailleur, which translates variously as "skirmisher", "rifleman", or "sharpshooter", was a designation given by the French Army to indigenous infantry recruited in the various colonies and overseas possessions of the French Empire during the 19th and 20th centuries.

The Senegalese Tirailleurs were formed in 1857 by Louis Faidherbe, governor general of French West Africa,
because he lacked sufficient French troops to control the territory and meet other requirements of the first phase of colonisation. The formal decree for the formation of this force was signed on 21 July 1857 in Plombières-les-Bains by Napoleon III. Recruitment was later extended to other French colonies in Africa. During its early years the corps included some former slaves bought from West African slave-owners as well as prisoners of war. Subsequent recruitment was either by voluntary enlistment or on occasion by an arbitrary form of conscription.


Snip... they fought in other places for 50 years before the Great War ...

World War I[edit]

The flag of the 43rd battalion of Senegalese soldiers decorated with the fourragère
There were 21 battalions of Tirailleurs Sénégalais (BTS) in the French Army in August 1914, all serving in either West Africa or on active service in Morocco.

With the outbreak of war 37 battalions of French, North African and Senegalese infantry were transferred from Morocco to France. Five Senegalese battalions were soon serving on the Western Front, while others formed part of the reduced French garrison in Morocco. The 5th BTS formed part of a French column which was wiped out near Khenifra, during the Battle of El Herri on 13 November 1914, with 646 dead. The 10th, 13th, 16th and 21st BTS subsequently saw heavy fighting in Morocco, reinforced by 9,000 additional Senegalese tirailleurs brought up from French West Africa.[6]

On the Western Front the Tirailleurs Sénégalais served with distinction at Ypres and Dixmude during the Battle of Flanders in late 1914, at the capture of Fort de Douaumont in October 1916, during the battle of Chemin des Dames in April 1917 and at the Battle of Reims in 1918. Losses were particularly heavy in Flanders (estimated from 3,200 to 4,800)[7] and Chemin des Mains (7,000 out of 15,500 tirailleurs engaged).[7]

In 1915 seven battalions of Tirailleurs Sénégalais were amongst the 79,000 French troops sent to the Dardanelles. Total French casualties in this campaign reached 27,000 but the Senegalese and regular Colonial Infantry were noted for the high morale that they maintained in spite of losses that reached two out of three in some units.[8] The Senegalese tirailleurs particularly distinguished themselves in the attack during the initial French landings on the southern shore of the Dardanelles.[9]


After 1945[edit]

Le Place du Tirailleur Sénégalais with the Monument Demba et Dupont in front of the Dakar train station in 2012.
The 24e Regiment de Marche de Tirailleurs Sénégalais, comprising two battalions, served in the Indochina War between 1946 and 1954. Several independent battalions of Tirailleurs Sénégalais fought in the same theatre of war.[17] In 1949 there were still nine regiments of Senegalese tirailleurs in the French Army, serving in West Africa, Morocco, Algeria, Tunisia and Indochina.

During the Algerian War the Tirailleurs Sénégalais saw extensive active service from 1954 to 1962, mainly as part of the quadrillage – a grid of occupation detachments intended to protect farms and roads in rural areas. About 12 separate Senegalese units (either three-battalion regiments or single battalions) served in French North Africa between 1954 and 1967, when the last French troops were withdrawn. In 1958–59 the Tirailleur units were in part dissolved, as African personnel transferred to newly formed national armies when the French colonies of West and Central Africa became independent. Substantial numbers of former tirailleurs continued to serve in the French Army but as individual volunteers in integrated Colonial (later Marine) Infantry or Artillery units. The Tirailleurs Sénégalais lost their distinctive historic identity during this process. As an example, the 1er RTS, raised in 1857, became the 61st Marine Infantry Regiment in December 1958.[18]

The last Senegalese unit in the French Army was disbanded in 1964.

The last Senegalese Tirailleur to have served in World War I. Abdoulaye Ndiaye, died at the age of 104 in November 1998. He had been wounded in the Dardanelles.[19]



 

5fish

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Confederacy actually employed black soldiers or not and if so in what quantity.
Do you know the American Black history in WW1 I found a short summary...

LINK: https://www.army.mil/article/199913...ters_proved_their_mettle_patriotism_in_combat

Snip...

After some three months of labor constructing nearby railways to move supplies forward, the Soldiers learned that they had orders to join the French 16th Division for three weeks of combat training.

They also learned they had a new regimental number as the now-renamed 369th Infantry Regiment. Not that it mattered much to the Soldiers; they still carried their nickname from New York, the Black Rattlers, and carried their regimental flag of the 15th New York Infantry everywhere they went in France.

While the 369th Infantry would become part of the U.S. Army's 92nd Infantry Division, it would be assigned to fight with French forces. This solved the dilemma for Pershing and the American Expeditionary Forces of what to do with the African-American troops.

The black troops would see combat, but alongside French forces, who were already accustomed to the many races and ethnicities already serving in the ranks of their colonial troops.

"The French army instructors literally welcomed their African American trainees as comrades in arms," Sammons wrote. "To the pragmatic French army instructors, the Soldiers were Americans, black Americans, to be trained for combat within their ranks. The trainees clearly excelled at their tasks."

After learning valuable lessons in trench warfare from their French partners, the Soldiers of the 369th finally had their chance to prove their worth as combat troops when they entered the front lines, holding their line against the last German spring offensive near Chateau-Thierry.

Their value was not lost on the French, and the regiment continued to fight alongside French forces, participating in the Aisne-Marne counter offensive in the summer of 1918 alongside the French 162nd Infantry Division.

The Hell Fighters from Harlem had come into their own, in spite of their difficult start.

The regiment would go on to prove itself in combat operations throughout the rest of the war, receiving the French highest honor, the Croix de Guerre, for its unit actions, alongside some 171 individual decorations for heroism.


Snip... It was music that frees them to fight...

The regiment's best advocate was their commander, Col. William Hayward.

"It was time for us to try to do something towards extricating ourselves from the dirty mess of pick-swinging and wheel barrel trundling that we were in," Hayward had said to Capt. Arthur Little, commander of the regimental band, according to Jeffrey Sammons in his 2014 book "Harlem's Rattlers and the Great War."

"We had come to France as combat troops, and, apparently, we were in danger of becoming labor troops," Hayward said.

Hayward argued his case in a letter to General Pershing, outlining the regiments' mobilization and training, and followed up immediately with a personal visit to Pershing's headquarters.

He would bring with him the regiment's most formidable weapon in swaying opinion: the regimental band, lauded as one of the finest in the entire Expeditionary Force.

While the regiment literally laid the tracks for the arrival of the two million troops deploying to France, the regimental band toured the region, performing for French and American audiences at rest centers and hospitals. The 369th Band was unlike any other performance audiences had seen or heard before, noted Harris. The regimental band is credited with introducing jazz music to France during the war.

The military band would frequently perform a French march, followed by traditional band scores such as John Philip Sousa's "Stars and Stripes Forever."

"And then came the fireworks," said Sgt. Noble Sissle, band vocalist and organizer, in the Harris account, as the 369th Band would play as if they were in a jazz club back in Harlem.
 

Matt McKeon

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There is an interesting book Lost Battalions about African American and mostly immigrant units fighting in WWI.
 

Wehrkraftzersetzer

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how about the french & the Spanish Forreign Legions where natives could only be officers?
 

Kirk's Raider's

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Do you know the American Black history in WW1 I found a short summary...

LINK: https://www.army.mil/article/199913...ters_proved_their_mettle_patriotism_in_combat

Snip...

After some three months of labor constructing nearby railways to move supplies forward, the Soldiers learned that they had orders to join the French 16th Division for three weeks of combat training.

They also learned they had a new regimental number as the now-renamed 369th Infantry Regiment. Not that it mattered much to the Soldiers; they still carried their nickname from New York, the Black Rattlers, and carried their regimental flag of the 15th New York Infantry everywhere they went in France.

While the 369th Infantry would become part of the U.S. Army's 92nd Infantry Division, it would be assigned to fight with French forces. This solved the dilemma for Pershing and the American Expeditionary Forces of what to do with the African-American troops.

The black troops would see combat, but alongside French forces, who were already accustomed to the many races and ethnicities already serving in the ranks of their colonial troops.

"The French army instructors literally welcomed their African American trainees as comrades in arms," Sammons wrote. "To the pragmatic French army instructors, the Soldiers were Americans, black Americans, to be trained for combat within their ranks. The trainees clearly excelled at their tasks."

After learning valuable lessons in trench warfare from their French partners, the Soldiers of the 369th finally had their chance to prove their worth as combat troops when they entered the front lines, holding their line against the last German spring offensive near Chateau-Thierry.

Their value was not lost on the French, and the regiment continued to fight alongside French forces, participating in the Aisne-Marne counter offensive in the summer of 1918 alongside the French 162nd Infantry Division.

The Hell Fighters from Harlem had come into their own, in spite of their difficult start.

The regiment would go on to prove itself in combat operations throughout the rest of the war, receiving the French highest honor, the Croix de Guerre, for its unit actions, alongside some 171 individual decorations for heroism.


Snip... It was music that frees them to fight...

The regiment's best advocate was their commander, Col. William Hayward.

"It was time for us to try to do something towards extricating ourselves from the dirty mess of pick-swinging and wheel barrel trundling that we were in," Hayward had said to Capt. Arthur Little, commander of the regimental band, according to Jeffrey Sammons in his 2014 book "Harlem's Rattlers and the Great War."

"We had come to France as combat troops, and, apparently, we were in danger of becoming labor troops," Hayward said.

Hayward argued his case in a letter to General Pershing, outlining the regiments' mobilization and training, and followed up immediately with a personal visit to Pershing's headquarters.

He would bring with him the regiment's most formidable weapon in swaying opinion: the regimental band, lauded as one of the finest in the entire Expeditionary Force.

While the regiment literally laid the tracks for the arrival of the two million troops deploying to France, the regimental band toured the region, performing for French and American audiences at rest centers and hospitals. The 369th Band was unlike any other performance audiences had seen or heard before, noted Harris. The regimental band is credited with introducing jazz music to France during the war.

The military band would frequently perform a French march, followed by traditional band scores such as John Philip Sousa's "Stars and Stripes Forever."

"And then came the fireworks," said Sgt. Noble Sissle, band vocalist and organizer, in the Harris account, as the 369th Band would play as if they were in a jazz club back in Harlem.
Yes I did. There were some rots in the US involving black troops stationed in the South who were treated harshly by their white Southern officers and local law enforcement.
As a whole the US military would have major racial tensions until post Vietnam era.
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Kirk's Raider's

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I was actually wondering about how twell they fought with French ..
The black troops preformed well. Unfortunately it didn't really matter because the US military would have racist officer's until policy changes by the mud 1970s.
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5fish

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Would these not list as segregated units...
International Brigades - Wikipedia

The International Brigades (Spanish: Brigadas Internacionales) were paramilitary units set up by the Communist International to assist the Popular Front government of the Second Spanish Republic during the Spanish Civil War. The organisation existed for two years, from 1936 until 1938. It is estimated that during the entire war, between 40,000 and 59,000 members served in the International Brigades, including 15,000 who died in combat.[1]

The International Brigades was strongly supported by the Comintern and represented the Soviet Union's commitment to provide assistance to the Spanish Republic (with arms, logistics, military advisers and the NKVD), just as Fascist Italy, Corporatist Portugal and Nazi Germany were providing assistance to the opposing Nationalist insurgency.[3] The largest number of volunteers came from France (where the French Communist Party had many members) and communist exiles from Italy and Germany. Many Jews from the English-speaking world and Eastern Europe also participated.[4] Republican volunteers who were opposed to Stalinism did not join the Brigades but instead enlisted in the separate Popular Front, the POUM, formed from Trotskyist, Bukharinist and other anti-Stalinist groups, which did not separate Spaniards and foreign volunteers (such as George Orwell),[5] or anarcho-syndicalist groups such as the Durruti Column, the IWA and the CNT.

This Snip...
XI International Brigade - Wikipedia

The XI International Brigade fought for the Spanish Second Republic in the Spanish Civil War.

It would become especially renowned for providing desperately needed support in the darkest hours of the Republican defense of Madrid on 8 November 1936, when, with great losses, it helped repulse a major assault by veteran Nationalist troops, buying time for more Republican troops to be brought into the city.[1]


It was originally mustered from international volunteers at Albacete, Spain, in mid-October 1936 as the IX Brigada Movíl, with four battalions:

  • Franco-Belgian Battalion (14 Oct 1936)
  • Austro-German Battalion (14 Oct 1936)
  • Italo-Spanish Battalion (14 Oct 1936)
  • Polish-Balkan Battalion (17 Oct 1936)
It was redesignated the 'XI "Hans Beimler" International Brigade' on 22 October 1936, with General "Kléber" (Manfred Stern) commanding.[2] The original battalions were renamed as follows:

Shortly after the formation of XII International Brigade in November, 1936, its Thälmann Battalion and the Garibaldi Battalion (which had no rifles) swapped places.

Other units that formed part of XI International Brigade at other times were:

  • Asturias-Heredia Battalion
  • Hans Beimler Battalion
  • Madrid Battalion
  • Pacifico Battalion
  • Pasionaria Battalion
  • Zwölfter Februar Battalion
The brigade fought in the battles of Madrid, the Corunna Road,[6] Jarama,[7] Guadalajara,[8] Brunete,[9]Belchite, Teruel,[10] and the Ebro.[11] After the death of Hans Beimler the energetic Giuseppe Di Vittorio became the political commissar.

 

5fish

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We have the American Abraham Lincoln brigade...
Lincoln Battalion - Wikipedia

The Lincoln Battalion was the 17th (later the 58th) battalion of the XV International Brigade, a mixed brigade of the International Brigades also known as Abraham Lincoln Brigade (Spanish: Brigada Abraham Lincoln). It was formed by a group of communist volunteers from the United States who served in the Spanish Civil War as soldiers, technicians, medical personnel and aviators fighting for Spanish Republican forces against the forces of General Francisco Franco and his Nationalist faction. The Lincoln Brigade was a mercenary force integrating white and black volunteers on an equal basis. Of the approximately 3,015 volunteers from the US, 681 were killed in action or died of wounds or sickness.[1]

Units[edit]

Flag of one of the military units of the Lincoln Battalion[11]
20th Battalion, 86th Brigade[edit]
An American company served in the 20th International Battalion that was attached to the 86th Mixed Brigade. This unit fought on the Cordoba Front. Most of the American volunteers were transferred from the unit to the XVth Brigade prior to the Brunete Offensive.[12]

The George Washington Battalion[edit]
The Washington Battalion was the second American battalion. The unit was merged with the Lincoln Battalion during the Brunete Campaign. It was commanded by Mirko Markovics and its commissar was Dave Mates.[13]

The MacKenzie-Papineau Battalion[edit]
Two-thirds of the nominally Canadian unit were Americans. Its first commander was Robert Thompson, an American veteran of the Lincoln Battalion. Joseph Dallet, also American, was the first Commissar.[14]

2nd Squadron, First Regiment de Tren[edit]
The Regiment de Tren was a transportation unit providing support to the Republican forces. The Second Squadron was predominately American. The commander was Durward Clark.

The John Brown Battery[edit]
This unit's official title was the 14th Battery, 2nd Group, 11th Regiment. It was a heavy artillery unit manning 155mm guns. The battery commander was Arthur Timpson, with Jack Waters as Commissar.[15]

4th Group, 35th Battery[edit]
This unit initially manned 155mm guns but were later equipped with 45mm anti-tank guns and were included in the 129th International Brigade. The battery commander was Nathan Budish, and his Commissar was Sid Kaufman.

American Medical Bureau
 

Kirk's Raider's

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Would these not list as segregated units...
International Brigades - Wikipedia

The International Brigades (Spanish: Brigadas Internacionales) were paramilitary units set up by the Communist International to assist the Popular Front government of the Second Spanish Republic during the Spanish Civil War. The organisation existed for two years, from 1936 until 1938. It is estimated that during the entire war, between 40,000 and 59,000 members served in the International Brigades, including 15,000 who died in combat.[1]

The International Brigades was strongly supported by the Comintern and represented the Soviet Union's commitment to provide assistance to the Spanish Republic (with arms, logistics, military advisers and the NKVD), just as Fascist Italy, Corporatist Portugal and Nazi Germany were providing assistance to the opposing Nationalist insurgency.[3] The largest number of volunteers came from France (where the French Communist Party had many members) and communist exiles from Italy and Germany. Many Jews from the English-speaking world and Eastern Europe also participated.[4] Republican volunteers who were opposed to Stalinism did not join the Brigades but instead enlisted in the separate Popular Front, the POUM, formed from Trotskyist, Bukharinist and other anti-Stalinist groups, which did not separate Spaniards and foreign volunteers (such as George Orwell),[5] or anarcho-syndicalist groups such as the Durruti Column, the IWA and the CNT.

This Snip...
XI International Brigade - Wikipedia

The XI International Brigade fought for the Spanish Second Republic in the Spanish Civil War.

It would become especially renowned for providing desperately needed support in the darkest hours of the Republican defense of Madrid on 8 November 1936, when, with great losses, it helped repulse a major assault by veteran Nationalist troops, buying time for more Republican troops to be brought into the city.[1]


It was originally mustered from international volunteers at Albacete, Spain, in mid-October 1936 as the IX Brigada Movíl, with four battalions:

  • Franco-Belgian Battalion (14 Oct 1936)
  • Austro-German Battalion (14 Oct 1936)
  • Italo-Spanish Battalion (14 Oct 1936)
  • Polish-Balkan Battalion (17 Oct 1936)
It was redesignated the 'XI "Hans Beimler" International Brigade' on 22 October 1936, with General "Kléber" (Manfred Stern) commanding.[2] The original battalions were renamed as follows:

Shortly after the formation of XII International Brigade in November, 1936, its Thälmann Battalion and the Garibaldi Battalion (which had no rifles) swapped places.

Other units that formed part of XI International Brigade at other times were:

  • Asturias-Heredia Battalion
  • Hans Beimler Battalion
  • Madrid Battalion
  • Pacifico Battalion
  • Pasionaria Battalion
  • Zwölfter Februar Battalion
The brigade fought in the battles of Madrid, the Corunna Road,[6] Jarama,[7] Guadalajara,[8] Brunete,[9]Belchite, Teruel,[10] and the Ebro.[11] After the death of Hans Beimler the energetic Giuseppe Di Vittorio became the political commissar.

The International Brigades were not racially segregated. The Abraham Lincoln Brigade was arguably the first American intergrated infantry unit although it was not part of the American military but of course it was composed of US citizens.
The International Brigades even had an Afro American fighter pilot who after Spain tried to warn the US Army Airforce about the new German Me-109 aircraft but was given the bums rush.
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5fish

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no way - just international volunteers
The International Brigades were not racially segregated. The Abraham Lincoln Brigade was arguably the first American intergrated infantry unit although it was not part of the American military but of course it was composed of US citizens.
The International Brigades even had an Afro American fighter pilot who after Spain tried to warn the US Army Airforce about the new German Me-109 aircraft but was given the bums rush.
Kirk's Raiders
But they are segregated from the Spanish Rep. Units. and made up of none natives.

Is not an issue of segregation from the majority nationality, ethic, or race...
 
Last edited:

rittmeister

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But they are segregated from the Spanish Rep. Units. and made up of none natives.

Is not an issue of segregation from the majority nationality, ethic, or race...
to be segregated they needed to be part of the republican army - they were not.

the usct were segregated within the union army not from it.
 

Kirk's Raider's

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We have the American Abraham Lincoln brigade...
Lincoln Battalion - Wikipedia

The Lincoln Battalion was the 17th (later the 58th) battalion of the XV International Brigade, a mixed brigade of the International Brigades also known as Abraham Lincoln Brigade (Spanish: Brigada Abraham Lincoln). It was formed by a group of communist volunteers from the United States who served in the Spanish Civil War as soldiers, technicians, medical personnel and aviators fighting for Spanish Republican forces against the forces of General Francisco Franco and his Nationalist faction. The Lincoln Brigade was a mercenary force integrating white and black volunteers on an equal basis. Of the approximately 3,015 volunteers from the US, 681 were killed in action or died of wounds or sickness.[1]

Units[edit]

Flag of one of the military units of the Lincoln Battalion[11]
20th Battalion, 86th Brigade[edit]
An American company served in the 20th International Battalion that was attached to the 86th Mixed Brigade. This unit fought on the Cordoba Front. Most of the American volunteers were transferred from the unit to the XVth Brigade prior to the Brunete Offensive.[12]

The George Washington Battalion[edit]
The Washington Battalion was the second American battalion. The unit was merged with the Lincoln Battalion during the Brunete Campaign. It was commanded by Mirko Markovics and its commissar was Dave Mates.[13]

The MacKenzie-Papineau Battalion[edit]
Two-thirds of the nominally Canadian unit were Americans. Its first commander was Robert Thompson, an American veteran of the Lincoln Battalion. Joseph Dallet, also American, was the first Commissar.[14]

2nd Squadron, First Regiment de Tren[edit]
The Regiment de Tren was a transportation unit providing support to the Republican forces. The Second Squadron was predominately American. The commander was Durward Clark.

The John Brown Battery[edit]
This unit's official title was the 14th Battery, 2nd Group, 11th Regiment. It was a heavy artillery unit manning 155mm guns. The battery commander was Arthur Timpson, with Jack Waters as Commissar.[15]

4th Group, 35th Battery[edit]
This unit initially manned 155mm guns but were later equipped with 45mm anti-tank guns and were included in the 129th International Brigade. The battery commander was Nathan Budish, and his Commissar was Sid Kaufman.

American Medical Bureau
The volunteers were not mercenaries. They didn't get paid or if they did it was almost nothing.
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Kirk's Raider's

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But they are segregated from the Spanish Rep. Units. and made up of none natives.

Is not an issue of segregation from the majority nationality, ethic, or race...
That's like saying the British Army was segregated from the US Army in WW2. It's not practical to integrate no. Spanish troops into the Spanish Army . It's far easier to put foreign troops in separate units.
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5fish

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to be segregated they needed to be part of the republican army - they were not.
. It's not practical to integrate no.
I want to point out they were part of the Spanish 35th Division which makes them part of the Spanish army... and segregated...

XV International Brigade - Wikipedia

The name Brigade is a misnomer. In the Spanish Civil War, a brigade consisted of four to six battalions.[6] American volunteers mostly joined the two battalions (the Lincoln Battalion and the Washington Battalion) within XV International Brigade. The XV International Brigade was made up of six battalions of volunteers from nations around the globe, topped up with Spanish conscripts.[7] Irish volunteers formed the Connolly Column of the battalion under the command of Frank Ryan. The column joined the American rather than the British battalion on nationalist grounds.


The Abraham Lincoln Brigade (Spanish: Brigada Abraham Lincoln), officially the XV International Brigade (XV Brigada Internacional), was a mixed brigade that fought for the Spanish Republic in the Spanish Civil War as a part of the International Brigades.

The brigade mustered at Albacete in Spain, in January 1937, comprising mainly English-speaking volunteers – arranged into a mostly British Battalion and a mostly North American Lincoln Battalion. It also included two non-English-speaking battalions, the Balkan Dimitrov Battalion and the Franco-Belgian Sixth February Battalion. It fought at Jarama, Brunete, Boadilla, Belchite, Fuentes de Ebro, Teruel and the Ebro River.

 
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