penal units in world war II and other wars

Discussion in 'Non Civil War Military History' started by 5fish, Nov 1, 2019.

  1. 5fish

    5fish Well-Known Member

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    I found this a right wing group... https://www.popflock.com/learn?s=Legion_of_French_Volunteers_Against_Bolshevism

    The Legion of French Volunteers was mainly made up of right-wing Frenchmen and French prisoners of war; the latter who preferred fighting to forced labor in Nazi Germany. Many Russians who fled the Bolshevik Revolution (1917-1922) and who were enrolled in the Légion étrangère (Foreign Legion) joined the LVF. Created in 1941, the LVF received 13,400 applicants, but many were weeded out and 5,800 were placed on the rolls.

    The LVF while in France wore a French army style khaki uniform, while outside France they wore the standard German Army uniform with an LVF shield on the right upper arm with the colors of the French flag with the word France or LVF. Both German and French decorations were worn.

    Snip... it seems to have gone through a few name changes...

    By October 1941, there were two battalions of 2,271 men which had 181 officers and an additional staff of 35 German officers. They fought the Soviet Union Red Army as part of the foreign contingent of the German Army. They were sent into combat near Moscow in November 1941 as part of the 7th Infantry Division. The LVF lost half their men in action or through frostbite. In 1942 the men were assigned to rear-security operations in the Byelorussian SSR (Belarus). At the same time, another unit was formed in France, La Légion Tricolore (Tricolor Legion) but this unit was absorbed into the LVF six months later.

    During the spring of 1942, the LVF was reorganized with only the 1st and 3rd battalions. The LVF's French commander, Colonel Roger Labonne, was relieved in mid-1942, and the unit was attached to various German divisions until June 1943 when Colonel Edgar Puaud took command. The two independent battalions were again united in a single regiment and continued fighting partisans in Ukraine. In early 1944, the unit again took part in rear-security operations. In June 1944, as Army Group Centre's front collapsed under the Red Army's summer offensive, the LVF was attached to the 4th SS Police Regiment and fought in a delaying action.

    A new recruiting drive in Vichy France attracted 3,000 applicants, mostly members of collaborationist militia and university students. The new formation was known as the 8th SS Volunteer Sturmbrigade France. On 1 September 1944, the Legion of French Volunteers was officially disbanded. A new unit, the Waffen-Grenadier-Brigade der SS "Charlemagne", was formed out of the remnants of the LVF and French Sturmbrigade, which was also disbanded. In February 1945, the Waffen-Grenadier-Brigade was officially upgraded to a division and became the 33rd Waffen Grenadier Division of the SS Charlemagne (1st French). At that time it had a strength of 7,340 men. SS Division Charlemagne members participated in the Battle in Berlin. Reduced to approximately thirty men, most French SS men surrendered near the Potsdamer rail station to the Red Army.

    Here is Wiki take on them a bit different than the other link;... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/33rd_Waffen_Grenadier_Division_of_the_SS_Charlemagne_(1st_French)
     
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  2. rittmeister

    rittmeister trekkie in residence Staff Member

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    in other words: not a penal unit


    ... just to repeat it: to call an outfit a penal unit, the soldiers need to be convicted for sth (military or civil courts) - being threatened to join is not a conviction, is it?
     
    Last edited: Nov 8, 2019
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  3. 5fish

    5fish Well-Known Member

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  4. rittmeister

    rittmeister trekkie in residence Staff Member

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    for starters: 'when' is ancient china?


    ... i added and other wars to the title so you are not off-topic [​IMG]
     
  5. 5fish

    5fish Well-Known Member

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    I ran out of WW2 penal units so I went looking for other ones... thanks for the title change... :)
     
  6. rittmeister

    rittmeister trekkie in residence Staff Member

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    watched it now (not just the trailer)

    it's called 'the captain' your place it's originally called der hauptmann and i urge everybody to watch it


    ... and, btw, it's totally off-topic [​IMG]
     
  7. 5fish

    5fish Well-Known Member

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    I went to the wiki to read about the true story and it had a twist I was not expecting ... the captain becomes A ....
     
  8. Kirk's Raider's

    Kirk's Raider's Well-Known Member

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    Definitely there was recruiting of Pows by both sides in the ACW. The Galvanized Yankees which appeared to be modestly successful and the 3rd North Carolina Mounted Infantry Union.
    The Confederate Army did recruit Union Pows from Camp Salisbury and they were a separate unit in the Barksdale Greys if memory serves. They fired a few shots at the Union Army then surrendered.
    Kirk's Raider's
     
  9. rittmeister

    rittmeister trekkie in residence Staff Member

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    recruited pows don't form penal units - they are not convicted of anything

    ... why not open a thread about recruiting pows?
     
  10. Kirk's Raider's

    Kirk's Raider's Well-Known Member

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    It's @5fish thread he can make that decision to split the thread.
    Kirk's Raider's
     
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  11. rittmeister

    rittmeister trekkie in residence Staff Member

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    nope, he can't - that's actually my job and i've done it before [​IMG]i just prefer to not have to do that
     
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  12. rittmeister

    rittmeister trekkie in residence Staff Member

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    ... on the other hand we don't just delete stuff that's off-topic
     
    Last edited: Nov 10, 2019
  13. jgoodguy

    jgoodguy Webmaster Staff Member Administrator

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    5fish's input is welcomed, but it is a staff call in the end.
     
  14. Wehrkraftzersetzer

    Wehrkraftzersetzer Hüter des Reinheitsgebotes

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    call out the cards staff?
     
  15. jgoodguy

    jgoodguy Webmaster Staff Member Administrator

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    sort of a bat signal.
     
  16. rittmeister

    rittmeister trekkie in residence Staff Member

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    we should start on that joker with the funny hair, sir
     
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