Searching for Black Confederates by Kevin Levin

[jgoodguy]

Or in my case, checking it out of the library and reading it for free.

Could wait for the ex library copy.

 

[Andersonh1]

Levin book: "The Cross of Honor, introduced in 1900 by the UDC, was intended for Confederate soldiers who performed acts of valor on the battlefield."

Here's the full Preston Roberts article, which lists him as a "sometimes camp servant and cook in the command of the confederate cavalry leader, Gen. Nathan Bedford Forrest..."

"... he was not a regularly enlisted soldier, but, to use his own expression, was "one fo the most importantest men in the army,", having under his control seventy-five negro cooks, with money and authority to buy whatever was needed..."

So Levin either has his fact wrong when he states that the Cross of Honor is for soldiers who performed acts of valor on the battlefield, because it was bestowed on Roberts as a cook, or the UDC in 1904 considered Preston Roberts a soldier, despite his former status as a servant and cook. I wonder if Levin was even aware that a few black men received the Southern Cross of Honor when he wrote the book? I don't remember if he mentioned that particular fact.

The Cooperstown courier. (Cooperstown, Griggs Co., N.D.) 1902-1913, February 25, 1904

 

[O' Be Joyful]

Thanks for your opinions.

If I may interject, some of the longest threads "over there" were filled w/ a great deal of opinion. Those that took the time and effort to find source(s) were--mostly --awarded w/ approbation, along w/ popcorn.

 

[O' Be Joyful]

Could wait for the ex library copy.

That is where most of the books that fill my 4 side by side book-shelves--5 ft. high each--come from. Fill your bag day for $5 was my favorite.

 

[Viper21]

How do you know this?

He doesn't. He was giving his opinion.

 

[jgoodguy]

He doesn't. He was giving his opinion.

Evidence is the arbiter between opinions.

 

[O' Be Joyful]

Evidence is the arbiter between opinions.

Oh, so you have been watching the impeachment hearings too.

 

[Viper21]

Evidence is the arbiter between opinions.

Of which you provided none, for the specific claim that was questioned by Tom.

I believe I heard somewhere once...... lack of evidence is not evidence

 

[Andersonh1]

"Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence."

 

[O' Be Joyful]

lack of evidence is not evidence

Thus, assumption. By both "so-called" sides.

 

[jgoodguy]

Thus, assumption. By both "so-called" sides.

I understand the UDC gave out the crosses as door prizes and cake decorations. Prove me wrong.

In one case at least the medal was not awarded to a veteran.
https://rcwantiques.com/product/brigadier-general-elisha-franklin-paxtons-southern-cross-of-honor/
United Daughters of the Confederacy. Virginia Division. Cross of Military Service and Southern Cross of Honor applications, 1900-1944. (LVA Acc. 22646, 22756)

Description
At the November 1899 United Daughters of the Confederacy (UDC) convention in Richmond, Virginia, a design was approved for a cross of honor for valor and patriotism to be bestowed on Confederate veterans. This cross is known as the Southern Cross of Honor. The cross is in the form of a cross pattée suspended from a metal bar with space for engraving. The obverse displays the Confederate battle flag placed in the center and surrounded by a wreath, with the inscription UNITED DAUGHTERS CONFEDERACY TO THE U. C. V. (United Confederate Veterans) on the four arms of the cross. The reverse of the medal is the motto of the Confederate States, DEO VINDICE (God Our Vindicator) and the dates 1861 1865 also surrounded by a laurel wreath. The arms of the cross bear the inscription SOUTHERN CROSS OF HONOR. Crosses could only be given to Confederate veterans, oldest living lineal descendants of Confederate veterans, and widows of Confederate veterans. Only veterans could wear the cross.
Crosses with a veteran’s name engraved on the bar are far more desirable than those without a name. Value increases with war record or historical importance of the veteran. A cross bearing the name of a Confederate general is exceedingly rare. This cross is exceptional, as it bears the name “E. F. Paxton.” Brigadier General Elisha Franklin Paxton was commander of the famous “Stonewall Brigade” during the battle of Chancellorsville. On the morning of the second day of the battle, General Paxton was killed by a minie ball while leading his brigade. He is buried in Stonewall Jackson Memorial Cemetery, Lexington, Virginia.

Paxton’s widow, Elizabeth Hannah White Paxton, died in 1872, so Paxton’s cross was likely awarded to his oldest living son Matthew White Paxton. Paxton’s cross is marked “Patented, Charles W. Crankshaw, Atlanta” on the reverse of the bar.


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[jgoodguy]

"Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence."

It just means that there is no evidence.

There is no evidence that green aliens counterfeited UDC Cross of Honor but it also can be said that does not mean that the green aliens were absent,

 

[jgoodguy]

So Levin either has his fact wrong when he states that the Cross of Honor is for soldiers who performed acts of valor on the battlefield,

Levin is correct, the CSA Cross of Honor was for soldiers of the CSA army. The UDC Cross was a non-military commemorative medal.

 

[O' Be Joyful]

It just means that there is no evidence.

Thus, we will have to leave it to the "jury."

 

[Kirk's Raider's]

How did the Confederacy loose if they had tens of thousands of black Confederate soldiers?
Where were these soldiers at Petersburg or during Sherman's march through Georgia? Maybe they were keeping white Confederate soldiers girlfriends and wives company
Kirk's Raider's

 

[Viper21]

I understand the UDC gave out the crosses as door prizes and cake decorations. Prove me wrong.

In one case at least the medal was not awarded to a veteran.

​

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A practice that continues to this day. Military awards, & recognition often go to family members. Especially in the cases of the ultimate sacrifice.

Surely you have better examples than, a UDC cross going to a descendant of General Paxton for his service/sacrifice..???

I think you've got the burden of proof wrong as well. As long as I've been around period forums, the burden of proof has always been on the one making the claims. So..... Show us where, "the UDC gave out the crosses as door prizes and cake decorations"

 

[jgoodguy]

​

A practice that continues to this day. Military awards, & recognition often go to family members. Especially in the cases of the ultimate sacrifice.

Surely you have better examples than, a UDC cross going to a descendant of General Paxton for his service/sacrifice..???

We are in agreement with the proposition that the UDC cross did not necessarily go to CSA veterans. I see no conflict.

Indeed the matter of the giving seems more popularity than rigorous investigation based on this article kindly provided in #862 by @Andersonh1

The Cooperstown courier. (Cooperstown, Griggs Co., N.D.) 1902-1913, February 25, 1904(North Dakota for gosh sakes.) A slave, chief cook, and bottle washer got the cross because of 100 men demanding it.

I think you've got the burden of proof wrong as well. As long as I've been around period forums, the burden of proof has always been on the one making the claims. So..... Show us where, "the UDC gave out the crosses as door prizes and cake decorations"

Mere rhetoric/sarcasm entails no burden of proof.

 

[jgoodguy]

More on the UDC medal. There is not much in the way of verification.
Athens daily banner. (Athens, Ga.) May 06, 1900, Image 1

The medal is described as a souvenir, much like a unique cake decoration as well as a free gift much like a door prize.

 

[O' Be Joyful]

The medal is described as a souvenir, much like a unique cake decoration as well as a free gift much like a door prize.

I once "earned" an American Legion "certificate" for an essay upon patriotism. Though I do not consider it to have been a "door prize", I now do see it as highly subjectively selected.

It was a de-ammed good essay btw, considering that I was only 9 at the time.

 

[Tom]

The medal is described as a souvenir, much like a unique cake decoration as well as a free gift much like a door prize.

You seem to have missed the part where they equate it with the French Legion of Honor and British Victoria Cross.