Some White People on Plantation Tours Don't to Hear About Slaves!

jgoodguy

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I find it hard to believe that in the stately plantation h

I think that anyone in a panic that the discussion of slavery would crowd out the accomplishments of the owners of America's stately plantation homes has got the wrong end of the handle. I mean after centuries of treating black people like they don't matter or were invisible, some historic sites are including segments of their tours that include the experience of 90% of the people who lived on these places. And for all her handwringing about the lack of discussion of federalism, I feel everything would have been fine and dandy if the tour had limited itself to the furniture and wainscotting, and we wouldn't have heard any concern over the lack of time spend on federalism. She was have been comfortable with a good coat of whitewash.
IMHO Most folks go to be entertained not informed
 
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Al Mackey

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Wow...! You were online, debating folks, even before the World Wide Web was online....!! Impressive.
CompuServe offered its first dial-up online service in 1979.

In a 1983 movie, Matthew Broderick portrayed a teenager who got into some mischief and trouble using ... wait for it ... the internet.
 

Al Mackey

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White Americans subject to 'white fragility'. are not a race either not is white a race. Whites are considered a subset of the Caucasian 'race' with a variety of skin tones ranging up to dark brown. .
[begin quote]
Caucasian has two fairly distinct meanings, and the difference between them occasionally leads people to aver that one of them is incorrect. The earliest sense of the word is a literal one: “of or relating to the Caucasus (a region in southeastern Europe between the Black and Caspian seas) or its inhabitants.” The second refers to the racial group commonly referred to as white.

The objection to using Caucasian to refer to a white person is that many whites do not actually come from the Caucasus region. Be this as it may, there is no rule in language stipulating that the formation of a word must be based on logic; were this the case we would not call members of this racial group either Caucasian or white, since there are very few whose skin color is in fact that exact shade.
[end quote]

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/Caucasian
 

O' Be Joyful

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Preemptive Strike:

Let us attempt to leave Al Gore outta this internet stuff...please. ;)
 

jgoodguy

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[begin quote]
Caucasian has two fairly distinct meanings, and the difference between them occasionally leads people to aver that one of them is incorrect. The earliest sense of the word is a literal one: “of or relating to the Caucasus (a region in southeastern Europe between the Black and Caspian seas) or its inhabitants.” The second refers to the racial group commonly referred to as white.

The objection to using Caucasian to refer to a white person is that many whites do not actually come from the Caucasus region. Be this as it may, there is no rule in language stipulating that the formation of a word must be based on logic; were this the case we would not call members of this racial group either Caucasian or white, since there are very few whose skin color is in fact that exact shade.
[end quote]

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/Caucasian
Is it your position that white fragility applies outside of the US or not.
 

jgoodguy

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CompuServe offered its first dial-up online service in 1979.
IMDB
In a 1983 movie, Matthew Broderick portrayed a teenager who got into some mischief and trouble using ... wait for it ... the internet.
WarGames (1983)
Storyline
A young computer whiz kid accidentally connects into a top secret super-computer which has complete control over the U.S. nuclear arsenal. It challenges him to a game between America and Russia, and he innocently starts the countdown to World War 3. Can he convince the computer he wanted to play a game and not the real thing ?​

Not the internet, hackers in that day randomly had their computers program a modem to dial random number until it connected to another modem and attempt to invade that computer system. There was no internet to connect to in '83.
Plot
David Lightman, a bright but unmotivated Seattle high school student and hacker, uses his IMSAI 8080 computer to break into the school district's computer system and change his grades. He does the same for his friend and classmate Jennifer Mack. Later, while war dialingnumbers in Sunnyvale, California to find a computer game company, he connects with a system that does not identify itself. Asking for games, he finds a list that starts with chess, checkers, backgammon, and poker, as well as titles like "Theaterwide Biotoxic and Chemical Warfare" and "Global Thermonuclear War", but cannot proceed further. Two hacker friends explain the concept of a backdoor password and suggest tracking down the Falken referenced in "Falken's Maze," the first game listed. David discovers that Stephen Falken was an early artificial intelligence researcher, and guesses correctly that his dead son's name, Joshua, is the password.​
 

Al Mackey

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Is it your position that white fragility applies outside of the US or not.
I don't know enough to have a position on conditions outside the US, but I suspect it could apply to whites in other countries. However, I stand by the fact that Japanese is not a race and Brit is not a race, but white is a synonym for Caucasian, and the term "white fragility" applies to discussions about race.
 

Al Mackey

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WarGames (1983)
Storyline
A young computer whiz kid accidentally connects into a top secret super-computer which has complete control over the U.S. nuclear arsenal. It challenges him to a game between America and Russia, and he innocently starts the countdown to World War 3. Can he convince the computer he wanted to play a game and not the real thing ?​

Not the internet, hackers in that day randomly had their computers program a modem to dial random number until it connected to another modem and attempt to invade that computer system. There was no internet to connect to in '83.
Plot
David Lightman, a bright but unmotivated Seattle high school student and hacker, uses his IMSAI 8080 computer to break into the school district's computer system and change his grades. He does the same for his friend and classmate Jennifer Mack. Later, while war dialingnumbers in Sunnyvale, California to find a computer game company, he connects with a system that does not identify itself. Asking for games, he finds a list that starts with chess, checkers, backgammon, and poker, as well as titles like "Theaterwide Biotoxic and Chemical Warfare" and "Global Thermonuclear War", but cannot proceed further. Two hacker friends explain the concept of a backdoor password and suggest tracking down the Falken referenced in "Falken's Maze," the first game listed. David discovers that Stephen Falken was an early artificial intelligence researcher, and guesses correctly that his dead son's name, Joshua, is the password.​
On the contrary, there was an internet in 1983, just not widely available. It was primarily used in the military and among universities.
 

Viper21

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CompuServe offered its first dial-up online service in 1979.

In a 1983 movie, Matthew Broderick portrayed a teenager who got into some mischief and trouble using ... wait for it ... the internet.
I remember the movie. :D

I had a friend in high school, who was a computer whiz. Was my first exposure to one (1985/1986). He had a dial up modem & "talked" to other computers.

My post was directed at the VERY limited few who were debating online in the 80's. Most people didn't experience anything "online" until the 90's.

My first cpu was purchased in 1996. It had AOL pre-loaded :cool: It was a radio shack system with a HUGE 540MB hard drive, & a lightning fast 66mhz processor. :cool: Had the newer 3.5 floppy disks too. Paid $1800 for that bad boy, with the deluxe dot matrix printer, & boat anchor 13" green screen monitor. :D
 

jgoodguy

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I remember the movie. :D

I had a friend in high school, who was a computer whiz. Was my first exposure to one (1985/1986). He had a dial up modem & "talked" to other computers.

My post was directed at the VERY limited few who were debating online in the 80's. Most people didn't experience anything "online" until the 90's.

My first cpu was purchased in 1996. It had AOL pre-loaded :cool: It was a radio shack system with a HUGE 540MB hard drive, & a lightning fast 66mhz processor. :cool: Had the newer 3.5 floppy disks too. Paid $1800 for that bad boy, with the deluxe dot matrix printer, & boat anchor 13" green screen monitor. :D
Dial up boards were the norm in that era. My first job was a 8K 16 bit word IMB 1130 with 1 meg hard drives used to run a small Jr. College. Also sorted IBM cards and used an accounting machine that used a fractional HP motor to run.
 

Matt McKeon

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IMHO Most folks go to be entertained not informed
I don't know If I agree with that opinion. Anyone who takes the time and trouble to travel to a historic site, in my experience in working at these places, most want some steak with the sizzle.
 

jgoodguy

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I don't know If I agree with that opinion. Anyone who takes the time and trouble to travel to a historic site, in my experience in working at these places, most want some steak with the sizzle.
Good point, although IMHO the steak cannot be too tough or hard to digest.
 

Al Mackey

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I remember the movie. :D

I had a friend in high school, who was a computer whiz. Was my first exposure to one (1985/1986). He had a dial up modem & "talked" to other computers.

My post was directed at the VERY limited few who were debating online in the 80's. Most people didn't experience anything "online" until the 90's.

My first cpu was purchased in 1996. It had AOL pre-loaded :cool: It was a radio shack system with a HUGE 540MB hard drive, & a lightning fast 66mhz processor. :cool: Had the newer 3.5 floppy disks too. Paid $1800 for that bad boy, with the deluxe dot matrix printer, & boat anchor 13" green screen monitor. :D
And today we can do more with our watches than that computer could do. :)
 

MattL

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Though I don't know what the tour was like personally so I won't confidently assume this statement applies to that, I know to many white feelings are far more important than actual history, especially uncomfortable history.

What bothers me the most is this doesn't have to be uncomfortable history, at least not in a personal ownership or a need to defend my heritage way. Only in the way studying any atrocity and hardship is uncomfortable at times. I have many slave owning ancestors from the South, it wasn't me that owned them so there's no reason for me to avoid that history. It's hard to imagine how true Plantation history can not heavily involve slavery. A lot like how Medieval European history surrounding the royalty and aristocracy now often includes quite a bit of focus on the people that kept it running behind the scenes, the lives of the multitude of every day people etc.

History never promised us hugs.
 

jgoodguy

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History never promised us hugs.
Very True.
A lot like how Medieval European history surrounding the royalty and aristocracy now often includes quite a bit of focus on the people that kept it running behind the scenes, the lives of the multitude of every day people etc.
Good point, the POV of history has shifted from the royalty and wealthy to the commoners.
It's hard to imagine how true Plantation history can not heavily involve slavery.
Nor do I. It is hard to separate slavery from Southern history and concentrate on the gallant men of 4 years. OTOH there is more than just shouting slavery and stopping.
 

Viper21

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Though I don't know what the tour was like personally so I won't confidently assume this statement applies to that, I know to many white feelings are far more important than actual history, especially uncomfortable history.

What bothers me the most is this doesn't have to be uncomfortable history, at least not in a personal ownership or a need to defend my heritage way. Only in the way studying any atrocity and hardship is uncomfortable at times. I have many slave owning ancestors from the South, it wasn't me that owned them so there's no reason for me to avoid that history. It's hard to imagine how true Plantation history can not heavily involve slavery. A lot like how Medieval European history surrounding the royalty and aristocracy now often includes quite a bit of focus on the people that kept it running behind the scenes, the lives of the multitude of every day people etc.

History never promised us hugs.
We see similar phenomenon when discussing more recent history as well. Like the events from 18yrs ago tomorrow.

I too have slave owning ancestors. Most notably, a connection to the Waller family in Spotsylvania, VA.
 

jgoodguy

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There are days when I wish I had slave-owning ancestors.
 

rittmeister

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On the contrary, there was an internet in 1983, just not widely available. It was primarily used in the military and among universities.
the reason why i don't capitalize is that noone did it then - i came to doing emails in ws 1984 (ws means wintersemester) and we only could use it at the university (it was as fast as maj kong invating them ruskies on foot)
 
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