The A6M Naval Carrier Fighter - Zero or Hero?

[jgoodguy]

Long very long, but very interesting

 

[rittmeister]

2:33:xx -> to-fucking-morrow

 

[jgoodguy]

2:33:xx -> to-fucking-morrow

The most interesting thing I found was that the zero needed radios to coordinate attacks, but the radios had insufficient shielding so lots of static so the pilots chunked them, the problem was compounded by solar and magnetic interference of the Solomons and Guadalcanal shortwave communications for both sides were affected so that communications were limited to a fraction of the normal distance, but the allies kept the radios while the Japanese were flying blind.

Lots and lots of myths were corrected. Very interesting, but for the most part, I listened in 15-minute chunks. I have a short attention span.

I like this guy's channel and have viewed more naval videos that I care to think about. FWIW this grabbed my attention which led to the zero video.

 

[O' Be Joyful]

 

[Kirk's Raider's]

I remember reading about the Zero quite a bit as during Jr High. The Zero was the best dog fighter in the Pacific Theater up until the introduction of the Gruman Hellcat and latter the Corsair.
The P38 could kill Zeros if it was higher in altitude then the Zero and could catch the Zero in a dive. The Zero had very little armor so it couldn't take a lot of punishment.
The Wildcats were able to inflict some kills especially the Cactus Airforce in Guadalcanal but mostly by aireal ambush .
American pilots learned to fly together in twos so the aircraft in the rear could try to pick off a Zero.
Ultimately the superior Hell Cat , Corsair and Mustang were more then a match for the Zero.
The Japanese tried to keep up with US fighter development but lacked the industrial base to do so. The Japanese towards the end of the war were able to smuggle in a few German Me-262 jets but unable to produce them in time.
Kirk's Raiders

 

[Kirk's Raider's]

A good companion documentary is" General Cheannualts Flying Tiger's" a 57 miniute documentary from the Discovery Channel. Using tactics developed by soon to be Brig . General Cheannual the early model P40s of the American Volunteer Group actually we're able to shoot down a fair amount of Zeros.
Kirk's Raiders

 

[rittmeister]

A good companion documentary is" General Cheannualts Flying Tiger's" a 57 miniute documentary from the Discovery Channel. Using tactics developed by soon to be Brig . General Cheannual the early model P40s of the American Volunteer Group actually we're able to shoot down a fair amount of Zeros.
Kirk's Raiders

wouldn't they fight the japanese army airforce?

this?

 

[jgoodguy]

A good companion documentary is" General Cheannualts Flying Tiger's" a 57 miniute documentary from the Discovery Channel. Using tactics developed by soon to be Brig . General Cheannual the early model P40s of the American Volunteer Group actually we're able to shoot down a fair amount of Zeros.
Kirk's Raiders

Except they were not Zeros, lots of misidentification. Not to mention both sides claimed 20 or so kills to an actual one.

 

[Kirk's Raider's]

Except they were not Zeros, lots of misidentification. Not to mention both sides claimed 20 or so kills to an actual one.

The guys who were there say different.
True we may never know how many actual kills happened but the AVG is considered the first successful allied unit to effectively counter Japanese air power.
Kirk's Raiders

 

[Kirk's Raider's]

wouldn't they fight the japanese army airforce?

this?

Yep!. Good job.
Kirk's Raiders

 

[Kirk's Raider's]

Apparently the Japanese Army Airforce developed a fighter aircraft superior to American fighter aircraft the Nagajimia (sp) Ki 84 but to little to late. Not enough high quality metals and not enough trained pilot's.
Kirk's Raiders

 

[rittmeister]

The guys who were there say different.
True we may never know how many actual kills happened but the AVG is considered the first successful allied unit to effectively counter Japanese air power.
Kirk's Raiders

if we had all the tigers your guys claimed to have engaged we might have won

 

[jgoodguy]

The guys who were there say different.
True we may never know how many actual kills happened but the AVG is considered the first successful allied unit to effectively counter Japanese air power.
Kirk's Raiders

Actually researchers have allied and Japanese logs of losses.

 

[Kirk's Raider's]

Actually researchers have allied and Japanese logs of losses.

It would be interesting to see how the AVG actually did . It's is acknowlged that the top aces of WW2 were German although not many survived the war.

Also a certain amount of aircraft just never made it back we can't always know what pilot or group of pilot's should get credit.
Kirk's Raiders

 

[Kirk's Raider's]

if we had all the tigers your guys claimed to have engaged we might have won

The Flying Tiger's have nothing to do with the Tiger tank.
I just watched a documentary that pointed out that of the approximately 150 odd Tiger Tanks in France all the Tigers were fighting the British and Canadians. Americans mistook the Panzer MkIV for Tiger ranks.
We could do a separate thread on Tanks as the Tiger was an impressive tank but it had some serious rivals among Soviet tanks.
Trivia bonus point what was the last battle fought by German Panzer tanks although not by the Whermacht?
Kirk's Raiders

 

[jgoodguy]

It would be interesting to see how the AVG actually did . It's is acknowlged that the top aces of WW2 were German although not many survived the war.

Also a certain amount of aircraft just never made it back we can't always know what pilot or group of pilot's should get credit.
Kirk's Raiders

That gets into the purpose of interceptor/fighter aircraft. Attack and defend bombers not dogfighting.

 

[Kirk's Raider's]

That gets into the purpose of interceptor/fighter aircraft. Attack and defend bombers not dogfighting.

Quite right. General Chenaullt (sp?) was far to smart to encourage his men to dog fight. The P40 was just not munverable enough to engage Japanese fighter aircraft. On the other hand it could with six fifty caliber machine guns kill enemy fighter aircraft if it could utilize surprise attack's from above .

 

[Kirk's Raider's]

That gets into the purpose of interceptor/fighter aircraft. Attack and defend bombers not dogfighting.

I am not aware of the AVG doing bomber escort as the Chinese Air Force by the time of the AVG's deployment simply didn't really exist.
The AVG did strafe Japanese Army Airforce bases.
Kirk's Raiders

 

[jgoodguy]

Assessment of the AVG

The AVG's kill ratio was superior to that of contemporary Allied air groups in Malaya, the Philippines, and elsewhere in the Pacific theater. The AVG's success is all the more remarkable since they were outnumbered by Japanese fighters in almost all their engagements. The AVG's P-40s were superior to the JAAF's Ki-27s, but the group's kill ratio against modern Ki-43s was still in its favor. In Flying Tigers: Claire Chennault and His American Volunteers, 1941–1942, Daniel Ford attributes the AVG's success to morale and group esprit de corps. He notes that its pilots were "triple volunteers" who had volunteered for service with the U.S. military, the AVG, and brutal fighting in Burma. The result was a corps of experienced and skilled volunteer pilots who wanted to fight.
​

Nakajima Ki-43

While relatively easy for a trained eye to tell apart with the "finer" lines of the Ki-43's fuselage — especially towards the tail — and more tapered wing planform; in the heat of battle, given the brief glimpses and distraction of combat, Allied aviators frequently made mistakes in enemy aircraft identification in the heat of a dogfight, reportedly having fought "Zeros" in areas where there were no Navy fighters. In spite of its drawbacks, the Ki-43 shot down more Allied aircraft than any other Japanese fighter and almost all the JAAF's aces achieved most of their kills in it.

​

 

[jgoodguy]

I am not aware of the AVG doing bomber escort as the Chinese Air Force by the time of the AVG's deployment simply didn't really exist.
The AVG did strafe Japanese Army Airforce bases.
Kirk's Raiders

They would attack bombers.