the modern day us army: manpower, budget and 'employment'

[jgoodguy]

so your problem is your defense industry not some commies / bad guys?

For some damn reason, it is easier to spend money on fancy arms than on social programs.

 

[jgoodguy]

Plenty of bases, support tens of thousands of citizens directly, in the communities they are located, as well as considerably more indirectl

A form of welfare?

 

[O' Be Joyful]

That's all debatable.

However, my point was simply, it isn't just, rich folks who own stock in military industrial companies, who benefit from the federal expenditures there. There are plenty of metro areas that are completely dependent upon military bases, & all that goes with them to support their communities. Plenty of the cash spent on the military filters to regular people who are not in the military, or stock holders in such.

Plenty of bases, support tens of thousands of citizens directly, in the communities they are located, as well as considerably more indirectly.

For some damn reason, it is easier to spend money on fancy arms than on social programs.

Both can be true at the same time.

How do we take care of those that are wounded today? Its constantly the balance of guns vs butter, but it always seems that its the warriors that get greased. : (

 

[Viper21]

A form of welfare?

I don't consider employment, welfare.

 

[Kirk's Raider's]

That's all debatable.

However, my point was simply, it isn't just, rich folks who own stock in military industrial companies, who benefit from the federal expenditures there. There are plenty of metro areas that are completely dependent upon military bases, & all that goes with them to support their communities. Plenty of the cash spent on the military filters to regular people who are not in the military, or stock holders in such.

Plenty of bases, support tens of thousands of citizens directly, in the communities they are located, as well as considerably more indirectly.

My point is that all that money could be spent on far more projects beneficial to society.
Kirk's Raiders

 

[Kirk's Raider's]

I don't consider employment, welfare.

Employment in the military and or military industrial complex is simply a form of socialism.
Kirk's Raiders

 

[Kirk's Raider's]

Lots of regular folks have jobs making supplies, & materials for the military.

But again the same amount of money said regular people earn could be spent employing them for constructive purposes.
Kirk's Raiders

 

[O' Be Joyful]

I don't consider employment, welfare.

I consider Defense proper and necessary, but when it cuts out the weakest among us to enrich the few...reevaluation is required.

 

[Kirk's Raider's]

For some damn reason, it is easier to spend money on fancy arms than on social programs.

Again poor folks don't attend fundraiser's . Miltary Industrial corporate folks will.
Kirk's Raiders

 

[Viper21]

My point is that all that money could be spent on far more projects beneficial to society.
Kirk's Raiders

I get your point. I just disagree with it. Without our expenditures on defense, our society would look much different. Not in a positive way. There are many forces in the world that would do us harm. The border crisis is absolutely nothing compared to the evil actors in the world who want nothing more than to destroy our society. The ONLY reason we've not had another major 9-11 style attack here, is because of the efforts of our defense assets worldwide.

Employment in the military and or military industrial complex is simply a form of socialism.
Kirk's Raiders

I disagree.

 

[Viper21]

But again the same amount of money said regular people earn could be spent employing them for constructive purposes.
Kirk's Raiders

Mom & Pops sub shop outside a base isn't constructive..? I'm sure it is to them. The blue collar tradesman repairing the buildings on base isn't constructive..? Most of these people support their families honestly, & work hard to contribute to our society, & all of it's social programs. How many civilians are employed in & around Norfolk, because it's the largest naval station in the world..?

These people pay taxes, & are self supportive. Net gain on our society, not a drain. It's literally 10's of thousands, around every military facility. Plenty of college degrees were paid for from defense contractors employees as well. All the way around. net gains.

Our DOD is the largest employer in the world. I believe they employ over 3 million people directly. Way more than that are employed indirectly, in support, & basic capitalist enterprises surrounding them all.

 

[jgoodguy]

Mom & Pops sub shop outside a base isn't constructive..? I'm sure it is to them. The blue collar tradesman repairing the buildings on base isn't constructive..? Most of these people support their families honestly, & work hard to contribute to our society, & all of it's social programs. How many civilians are employed in & around Norfolk, because it's the largest naval station in the world..?

These people pay taxes, & are self supportive. Net gain on our society, not a drain. It's literally 10's of thousands, around every military facility. Plenty of college degrees were paid for from defense contractors employees as well. All the way around. net gains.

Our DOD is the largest employer in the world. I believe they employ over 3 million people directly. Way more than that are employed indirectly, in support, & basic capitalist enterprises surrounding them all.

How competitive are the so call capitalist enterprises? Are they not monopolistic entities dependent on the government for survival.

 

[5fish]

That's all debatable.

However, my point was simply, it isn't just, rich folks who own stock in military industrial companies, who benefit from the federal expenditures there. There are plenty of metro areas that are completely dependent upon military bases, & all that goes with them to support their communities. Plenty of the cash spent on the military filters to regular people who are not in the military, or stock holders in such.

Plenty of bases, support tens of thousands of citizens directly, in the communities they are located, as well as considerably more indirectly.

Government spending cannot create wealth. Government spending can only redistribute wealth. Military spending is the Republican welfare program for white middle-class Americans. Your mortgage Tax deduction is another white middle-class welfare program. Tax deductions are another form of welfare and wealth distribution schemes. When the government spends money it is redistributing wealth to selected parts of society. When the Government gives a tax break it is redistributing wealth in the form of social engineering. Only the private sector can create wealth...

We overspend on defense because we are the world's policeman...

The link the world is heading back to war...
SIPRI: Global military spending 'highest since Cold War ...
Links look at the GDP... some counties are going to crash...
List of countries by military expenditures - Wikipedia

 

[jgoodguy]

When I see what

Government spending cannot create wealth. Government spending can only redistribute wealth. Military spending is the Republican welfare program for white middle-class Americans. Your mortgage Tax deduction is another white middle-class welfare program. Tax deductions are another form of welfare and wealth distribution schemes. When the government spends money it is redistributing wealth to selected parts of society. When the Government gives a tax break it is redistributing wealth in the form of social engineering. Only the private sector can create wealth...

We overspend on defense because we are the world's policeman...

The link the world is heading back to war...
SIPRI: Global military spending 'highest since Cold War ...
Links look at the GDP... some counties are going to crash...
List of countries by military expenditures - Wikipedia

Government spending can increase wealth. Spending on education, roads, dams, infrastructure and so on creates wealth. Even safety net programs create wealth by preventing folks from bankrupting and of course, they spend the money at Walmart and so on. Give a bunch of money to poor people and they spend it, give it to rich and it is not productive. Investment in military hardware is a sunk cause without much benefit.

 

[rittmeister]

I get your point. I just disagree with it. Without our expenditures on defense, our society would look much different. Not in a positive way. There are many forces in the world that would do us harm. The border crisis is absolutely nothing compared to the evil actors in the world who want nothing more than to destroy our society. The ONLY reason we've not had another major 9-11 style attack here, is because of the efforts of our defense assets worldwide.

what might be the reason for that? a good place to start might be to search the archives in foggy bottom.

... btw:

We aren't.

you sure?

 

[rittmeister]

i split this off as it got nothing to do with phil leigh's blog - if somebody finds a better title i'm open for that

 

[Viper21]

what might be the reason for that? a good place to start might be to search the archives in foggy bottom.

Spite, jealousy, & religious fanaticism. The envy of the world, with the highest standard of living the world has ever seen. More freedom & liberty, than anywhere else. Plenty of actors in the world would love nothing more than to see our country fall. Hell, even some inside our own country. Without our influence in the world, the entire planet would turn into chaos, & third world shitholes.

Plenty of countries, even some of our "allies", talk a lot of shit but, would be on their knees without our support both, financially, & militarily.

We have our issues but, they are small potatoes compared to the rest of the world. Our generosity in the world is not even appreciated. Most countries take our money like snotty teenagers from their parents. We could end homelessness in our country, we could give free healthcare to our citizens, & turn into the utopia so many liberals beg for. All we'd have to do is cut off the rest of the world. Worry about ourselves instead of fighting everybody else's battles, & stop giving money, & assistance to the rest of the world.

Although, we aren't wired like that, & are the worlds biggest humanitarians. We'd be hated even more for that. Europe would be speaking Russian, or Arabic in no time, if that was the case.......

you sure?

Positive.

 

[rittmeister]

Spite, jealousy, & religious fanaticism. The envy of the world, with the highest standard of living the world has ever seen. More freedom & liberty, than anywhere else. Plenty of actors in the world would love nothing more than to see our country fall. Hell, even some inside our own country. Without our influence in the world, the entire planet would turn into chaos, & third world shitholes.

Plenty of countries, even some of our "allies", talk a lot of shit but, would be on their knees without our support both, financially, & militarily.

We have our issues but, they are small potatoes compared to the rest of the world. Our generosity in the world is not even appreciated. Most countries take our money like snotty teenagers from their parents. We could end homelessness in our country, we could give free healthcare to our citizens, & turn into the utopia so many liberals beg for. All we'd have to do is cut off the rest of the world. Worry about ourselves instead of fighting everybody else's battles, & stop giving money, & assistance to the rest of the world.

Although, we aren't wired like that, & are the worlds biggest humanitarians. We'd be hated even more for that. Europe would be speaking Russian, or Arabic in no time, if that was the case.......


Positive.

i can't possibly comment on that

 

[Kirk's Raider's]

Mom & Pops sub shop outside a base isn't constructive..? I'm sure it is to them. The blue collar tradesman repairing the buildings on base isn't constructive..? Most of these people support their families honestly, & work hard to contribute to our society, & all of it's social programs. How many civilians are employed in & around Norfolk, because it's the largest naval station in the world..?

These people pay taxes, & are self supportive. Net gain on our society, not a drain. It's literally 10's of thousands, around every military facility. Plenty of college degrees were paid for from defense contractors employees as well. All the way around. net gains.

Our DOD is the largest employer in the world. I believe they employ over 3 million people directly. Way more than that are employed indirectly, in support, & basic capitalist enterprises surrounding them all.

DOD spending is nothing more then government spending. That same money could employ people to rebuild our infestructure, a better staffed health care system, home for the homeless,repay our massive debts, repair our environment , more police and prisons etc.
Money spent on defense is the least efficient way to provide employment.
President Eisenhower noted every dollar spent on defense is one less for hungry children.
Kirk's Raiders

 

[Kirk's Raider's]

I get your point. I just disagree with it. Without our expenditures on defense, our society would look much different. Not in a positive way. There are many forces in the world that would do us harm. The border crisis is absolutely nothing compared to the evil actors in the world who want nothing more than to destroy our society. The ONLY reason we've not had another major 9-11 style attack here, is because of the efforts of our defense assets worldwide.



I disagree.

That's highly debatable. Only once we're we surprised attacked by a foreign nation and that was Japan in 1941. The US then defeated Japan using only 15% of it's military resources.
Kirk's Raiders