To erect a suitable Monument to their memory

Andersonh1

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The Forrest Monument
Its History and Dedication
A Memorial in Art, Oratory and Literature
Memphis, TN, May 1905

https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=loc.ark:/13960/t15m6ng1q&view=1up&seq=13

This particular monument will be re-erected in Elm Springs, Tennessee this year after it has been given to the SCV since the City of Memphis found a way around the monument protection law of that State and was able to have it removed. From what I understand, General Forrest and his wife will be re-interred there as well, at the wishes of the family.

From the monument itself we get an indication of its purpose, which is printed early in the book:
ERECTED BY HIS COUNTRYMEN IN HONOR
OF THE MILITARY GENIUS OF
LIEUTENANT-GENERAL NATHAN BEDFORD FORREST
CONFEDERATE STATES ARMY​

So it's in honor of Forrest's "military genius", so this is a clear military monument, in honor of a single individual, rather than a more general memorial to the dead. Like the others we've seen so far, an association was formed for the creation of this monument, the Forrest Memorial Association.

At the monument's unveiling, a newspaper story printed in the booklet predicts the following:

New men and new ideas and new interests are thrusting aside the broken fragments of the past. The shadows darken about the survivors of Forrest. A little later and these survivors will become shadows themselves, but the great bronze statue of Gen. Forrest will stand for all time to come a vindication of a nation's hero; a tribute to a great man's greater achievements; a figure of supreme interest; a record of an epoch in the experience of a generation, during a period of awful stress and vicissitude; an illustration that the memory of daring deeds well done can never die.​

It won't stand in Memphis now, but it is going back up. Time will tell how long it remains standing this time.

The original dedication took place on May 16, 1905. The order was as follows:
  • Hon. J. P.Young, a private in Forrent's command, presiding.
  • Invocation by the Rt. Rev. Thomas F. Gailor.
  • Address- "History and Description of the Monument," by Gen. S. T. Carnes, President of the Monument Association.
  • Unveiling of the monument by little Kathleen Bradley, a great-granddaughter of Gen. Forrest.
  • Dedication address by Gen. George W. Gordon.
  • Address by Col. C. A. Stanton, an ex-Federal soldier.
  • Speech of Senator T. B. Turley
  • Benediction, Rev. D. C. Kelley, who commanded a brigade in Forrest's Corps.
In looking through the various speeches recorded in this booklet, we get some indications of what the speakers that day said that the Forrest monument meant. As you might imagine, the men who had ridden with him were reminded of him and of the shared experiences. But it's the president of the monument association who could speak with the most authority about the impetus behind the creation of this monument.

It is most gratifying to the members of the Forrest Monument Association, of which I am the honored President, to announce the completion of this monument, and I hope it will be as satisfying to many of you who have so liberally contributed to it, for the purpose of perpetuating the name and fame of Gen. Nathan Bedford Forrest, that incomparable soldier and military genius.
He had little else to say about the purpose, instead giving an account of how money was raised and the statue constructed. The group obtained the consent of his son to put the remains of Forrest and his wife beneath the monument, so that had already been done long before the unveiling.

General George Gordon gave the dedication address, and he had a bit more to say about the purpose.

We have not assembled here today to glorify war, that deplorable institution of violence, blood and death. Sed canimus arma virumque*

No. We are not here to exalt the direful art and sanguinary science of human carnage, but to salute and accentuate the name, and to commemorate in language, in bronze and in marble, the masterful prowess and martial genius of Tennessee's, if not America's, greatest, most original and dazzling soldier. Yes, we meet to dedicate this enduring monument to the honor and glory of an illustrious patriot and "mighty man of valor"—Lieutenant-General Nathan Bedford Forrest, who for four stirring and thrilling years did brilliant battle for Southern freedom and independence, in what he esteemed and we still regard as an unavoidable and defensive war.​

Most of the speech was of course devoted to Forrest himself and his life and attributes and military career throughout the war, and how he led and fought.

Major Stanton of the 3rd Iowa Cavalry was the next speaker, and the crowd responded with "tremendous applause" when this former Union officer was done, according to this account. Stanton had much to say in praise of Forrest as a soldier, and in praise of the post-war work of his men in building up their communities. It was a speech that praised the Confederate soldier as well, and how they had helped rebuild the South and the nation.

Forty years of study and reflection over the causes of the civil war have evolved the common judgment of mankind, and it will be the verdict of history for all time that the soldiers of the South and the soldiers of the North both fought for what they believed was right ; both were inspired by convictions of duty ; they were of kindred blood and they fought with the same Anglo-Saxon valor; there was bravery and sacrifice beyond comparison on both sides, but an overruling Providence had decreed that we should continue to be a united people and He ordered it that the blended blood and heroism of the men. who then strove against each other, *' contending for the right as God gave them to see the right, ' ' should make secure the future of the grandest nation the world has ever seen.

Comrades, you have a right to look with pride upon this monument ; it reminds you of bivouac, camp fire and bugle call ; of marching columns and waving flags; of desperate battles and thrilling scenes which make up an Iliad more stately and splendid than any that genius has immortalized.​

This monument is history in bronze ; it illustrates an eventful era in our national history: it commemorates Gen, Forrest's fame and it represents all the gallant soldiers of his command ; it attests the splendid courage which won triumphant victories and did not fail when reverses came -. it stands for heroic deeds which are now the proud heritage of all American citizens.

It is most appropriate that this monument should be placed here in this progressive city, which has had. and has now, its able and conspicuous representatives in every field of labor, commerce, religion, law, literature, politics, science and art : this city, which was Gen. Forrest's home and which has been, and is now, the home of so many other distinguished soldiers, some of whom served with the great leader whose memory we honor today.

It is eminently fitting that this figure should stand here within the borders of the Volunteer State, whose soldiers have marched and fought "from valley's depth to mountain height, and from inland rivers to the sea, ' ' in ever,v war in the history of our republic, with a valor which has helped to make the name and fame of the American soldier immortal. This monument stands as a memorial to Gen. Forrest and his fearless followers, living and dead; it is the tribute of the generous people of this city to a fighting leader and to his fighting men, to a great general whose
military record is the pride of his State and to the splendid soldiers of his command, whose deeds of heroism have not been surpassed in any age or land.
Senator Turley spoke next. And here we do get a "pro Anglo Saxon" comment, so if you want to find a racial remark to attach to this monument, Turley provides one. He does not name the "principles of the cause", so we're left to infer.

It has been the custom among all nations, civilized and uncivilized, to commemorate and perpetuate the memory and the great deeds of their heroes, warriors and statesmen by monuments, statues and mausoleums. It is, therefore, in every way fit and proper that this statue of Gen. Forrest should be erected in Memphis, where he passed his young manhood up to middle life, and amongst the people of Memphis who loved him so well, and from whose midst he went forth to his unexampled career of glory and renown.

But there is, Mr. Mayor, something attached to this statue and other like Confederate monuments which pertains to no other monuments or memorials known to history. The principles of the cause for which Forrest fought are not dead, and they will live as long as there is a drop of Anglo-Saxon blood on the face of the earth.
And then there is the benediction by Rev Kelley:

For as much as God, our Father, has put it into the hearts of our fellow-citizens and comrades to erect this monument in memory of Gen. Nathan Bedford Forrest, we here dedicate it to the promotion of patriotism, chivalry and devotion to country as God gave him to see these duties. We reverently return our thanks to Almighty God for His gift to us of this man, and this inspiration to virtue of the citizens who, in the erection of the monument, prove themselves not unworthy of God's gift to the man. God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Ghost keep us in memory of past heroism and future reverent obedience.
The booklet ends with a few words, among which is this statement of meaning:

Yet it was meet that this statue should have been erected, not for the good it does for the departed hero, but for the good it does for us and the good it will do for those who are to come after us.
It carries its lesson of courage and faith and exalted country love.
It speaks in the language of silence and with dumb lips proclaims that acts of heroism and self-sacrifice live forever.
An example fashioned in marble, it will stand for ages as the emblem of a standard of virtue which we should endeavor to exceed if we can and which we must not fall below.​

So there is a hint of race-related meaning, but by and large this Forrest monument is exactly what it appears to be: a memorial to General Forrest meant to inspire and remind people of the man. It's more about the man and his personal qualities than the cause, though those qualities were revealed while Forrest was in service to the cause. The vast majority of sentiments have nothing to do with race, and the fact that both soldiers who fought with and against Forrest spoke well of him does say something about the qualities of the man.
 
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Tom

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What did black people say about Confederate monuments during those times (late 1800s/early 1900s)? Did they denounce them?
Did they call them symbols of Jim Crow?...white supremacy? Did they call them "monuments to slavery?"

This is what the academic "elites" have been telling us for several years. Is it true, or are they lying their a$$ off?
 
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Andersonh1

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There is this well known example from 1890 from the Gold Leaf. (Henderson, N.C.) March 27, 1890, where the white son of a Confederate soldier argues against a Confederate monument, and then J. F. Harris, former slave and Republican state legislator, argues in favor of it, citing his experience during the war and because "their [the soldiers] virtues should be remembered." He intends to vote "to erect a monument in honor of the brave Confederate dead."

 

O' Be Joyful

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Andersonh1

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History of the Wake County Ladies Association
Confederate Memorials in Capitol Square
Memorial Pavilion
The House of Memory
and the Confederate Cemetery

compiled and written by Charlotte Williams, President Gen'l James Johnston Pettigrew chapter UDC
Raleigh, NC September 1938

https://ia802606.us.archive.org/2/items/historyofwakecou00will/historyofwakecou00will.pdf

Another history of a memorial association goes through when and how this association was formed, and gives a short history of James Johnston Pettigrew for whom this chapter of the UDC was named. Some of their activities are detailed, including a graveyard restoration and re-dedication around Pettigrew's grave. Pettigrew survived Gettysburg but was killed on the retreat back to Virginia.

The Association was formed in 1865. "The immediate object in forming this Association was to care for the sacred bodies of the dead in our own city." When the Union army came to Raleigh, they wanted the lot where Confederates from the hospital had been buried for themselves, so the dead had to be moved or else they would be "thrown in the road." These men were re-interred, and then like the Ladies Associations elsewhere, these women went to work recovering the dead that they could from Gettysburg.

It was at this time the Ladies' Memorial Association was formally organized, and work was begun putting the cemetery in order. The walks were laid off, grass sown, flowers and shrubs planted, the Confederate Monument was erected, a handsome iron paviliion was placed in the center of the grounds, wooden head-boards were exchanged for granite, and the present system of marking them by numbers and recording both name and number in a register was adopted.​

In attempting to have a Memorial Day, the ladies were informed they would be shot if they had a procession, so they went in groups of two or three. When the troops left the city they were able to implement more formal ceremonies, and some dead from Arlington re-interred in NC. At the time this book was written, time had take its toll on this organization, and there is an appeal to the future.

It is the hope and prayer of the older members of the Ladies' Memorial Association that the work be not allowed to die with the passing away of its founders, and the generation which
knew the birth of the "Storm-beaten" nation, and which mourn its fall, and whose hearts cherish the fadeless glories of the Confederate flag; but that the younger women, to whom these glories are only a tradition, will keep alive the memory of the men who died for our just cause, but who died not in vain, for they gave their lives for a great principle, and their blood sends a message down through all time.
As the history continues, it reaches 1918 and World War 1 is mentioned, with young men headed off to war. "Many a heart was aching, and the younger members of the assemblage had brought home to them what their mothers, friends and relatives had known during the sixties. Many of these boys never returned, and are sleeping in France."

The Ladies Memorial Association ended as an organization, and the cemetery they had cared for was deeded to the Pettigrew UDC chapter. During the transfer of property and listing of the records of the Memorial Association comes the following statement of purpose:

In the year following- the fall of the Confederacy (1866) the Ladies Memorial Association of Wake County was organized. It was composed of the wives, widows, mothers and daughters of Confederate Soldiers, and its purpose was to aid needy Confederate Soldiers and dependents, as well as to honor the Memory of those who wore the Gray.

----------

That we, the Ladies Memorial Association of Wake County, ask the Johnston Pettigrew Chapter of the United Daughters of the Confederacy to accept our membership as its own and to take over and carry on the work in which we are now and have so long been engaged. We especially ask your loving care of the Confederate Cemetery, where lie so many of our
gallant heroes.
The UDC took over the care of the cemetery, and the monument they contributed was a memorial brick wall around the cemetery, as well as a bronze memorial plaque. It was dedicated with a ceremony and gifted to the state of NC. It's a different type of memorial, to be sure, than the column and soldier we so often see on courthouse grounds.

When it was planned to move the Confederate Monument from Capitol Square in 1934 (not placed there by this branch of the UDC ), the chapter gave a public statement noting just why it was in the location it occupied. It was ultimately not moved.

The spot on which the Monument now stands was approved by the State of North Carolina, its Council of State and the Governor of 1895. It should remain in its place of Honor where they placed it and we are in honor bound to keep it there. The monument was built by the State of North Carolina and the Southern Memorial Associations all over the entire State, it does not belong to Raleigh alone, these Associations were composed of mothers, widows and wives of the North Carolina soldiers of the Confederacy.

This was their State as much as ours, they did more for it during- those long dark days of the Sixties, and the dreadful reconstruction times, than we will ever do. To tear down their
labor of love and sacrifice which was the work of many long years will be an insult to their memory, and breaking faith with the dead
—we cannot do it. We have too much confidence in the Governor and the Council of State to believe they will ever allow the removal of this Monument.​

A few other memorials and incidents are mentioned. The body of Jefferson Davis lay in state in Raleigh, and that is noted. Some other memorials connected with this group are mentioned. As you can tell, the book is not entirely chronological.

On May 10th, 1910 the Memorial Gateway was unveiled and dedicated. Mrs. E. E. Moffitt, introduced by Dr. D. H. Hill, presented the Gateway to the Ladies Memorial Association of
Wake County. She said in part, "It is with deepest appreciation that I accept the commission of the Johnston Pettigrew Chapter of presenting to the Wake County Memorial Association the beautiful granite gateway which stands on the border line of the two Cities of the Dead," Oakwood and the Confederate Cemetery."

It is to stand as a Memorial to the boys in Gray, but will likewise commemorate the patriotic service of promoters of this noteworthy association which had for its object the preservation and care of the graves of the Confederate dead. The following inscription is on the bronze tablet on one of the columns "Erected in Memory of Our Confederate Dead by the Johnston Pettigrew Chapter U. D. C, 1910."
A memorial in the Confederate cemetery was dedicated in 1936. Dr. Frank P Graham, president of UNC, gave the address.

This is not a house of victory or exultation, not a house of defeat and bitterness and hatred, but a house in which are stored many beautiful memories," Dr. Graham said, "First of all, we would remember the 2,000 soldiers and sailors of North Carolina, and the 500 from other states who rest on this quiet hillside—we would remember that they believed in something deeply enough to give their lives. We would remember that North Carohna sent 127.000 of her sons into the armies of the South, and 20,000 of them paid the supreme price.​

 

5fish

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We hear a lot of accusations today that Confederate memorials that dot the Southern landscape are "monuments to white supremacy", placed there "to intimidate the black population", and therefore they are racist and should be removed.
You know the argument and you know it true but you choose to ignore it...

Snip... https://www.npr.org/2017/08/20/5442...e-built-to-further-a-white-supremacist-future

Still, in 1948, the statues went up.

"Who erects a statue of former Confederate generals on the very heels of fighting and winning a war for democracy?" writes Dailey, in a piece for HuffPost, referencing the just-ended World War II. "People who want to send a message to black veterans, the Supreme Court, and the president of the United States, that's who."

Statues and monuments are often seen as long-standing, permanent fixtures, but such memorabilia take effort, planning and politics to get placed, especially on government property. In an interview with NPR, Dailey said it's impossible to separate symbols of the Confederacy from the values of white supremacy. In comparing Robert E. Lee to Presidents George Washington and Thomas Jefferson on Tuesday,


In the early 1900s, states were enacting Jim Crow laws to disenfranchise black Americans. In the middle part of the century, the civil rights movement pushed back against that segregation.
James Grossman, the executive director of the American Historical Association, says that the increase in statues and monuments was clearly meant to send a message.
"These statues were meant to create legitimate garb for white supremacy," Grossman said. "Why would you put a statue of Robert E. Lee or Stonewall Jackson in 1948 in Baltimore?"




 

5fish

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Here is a graphic of confederate monuments building activity... notice how they match up with the Jim Crow and Civil Rights eras...

A timeline of the genesis of the Confederate sites shows two notable spikes. One comes around the turn of the 20th century, just after Plessy v. Ferguson, and just as many Southern states were establishing repressive race laws. The second runs from the mid-1950s to the mid-1960s—the peak of the civil-rights movement. In other words, the erection of Confederate monuments has been a way to perform cultural resistance to black equality.





 

Andersonh1

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You know the argument and you know it true but you choose to ignore it...
I don't know anything of the sort. And rather than looking to modern assumptions about the answers, I am doing what any historian or journalist should do: I am going back to the source. I am looking to see what the people who are responsible for installing these memorials had to say about why they did what they did. What that line of evidence is showing so far is that many of these monuments are exactly what they claim to be: memorials to the dead. They are grave markers.

The idea that people would spend tens of thousands of dollars and years of their life to create monuments to intimidate the black population is, to be blunt, a puerile line of thinking. There are far simpler and less time-consuming, inexpensive ways to do that. Sometimes a spade really is just a spade, and a monument to a hero of the South or to soldiers who died in the war is no more than that.

And please don't waste my time with "evidence" from the fraud that is the Southern Poverty Law Center. Nothing trustworthy comes out of that organization.
 

Andersonh1

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The second runs from the mid-1950s to the mid-1960s—the peak of the civil-rights movement.
And it was also around the time of the centennial of the war, when interest in it was running high. In any honest assessment of why monument construction might peak around that time, the centennial must be counted as a major factor. That it is not even mentioned by the SPLC indicates their dishonesty and sloppy reasoning.
 

Tom

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Here is a graphic of confederate monuments building activity... notice how they match up with the Jim Crow and Civil Rights eras...
They don't.

A timeline of the genesis of the Confederate sites shows two notable spikes. One comes around the turn of the 20th century, just after Plessy v. Ferguson, and just as many Southern states were establishing repressive race laws.
Jim Crow laws started in the late 1870s. The monument spike happened almost 20 years after Plessy v Ferguson.

The second runs from the mid-1950s to the mid-1960s—the peak of the civil-rights movement.
Your own chart shows more monuments in the 1930s than in the 1950s...and more in the 1940s than the 1950s.

 

Viper21

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You know the argument and you know it true but you choose to ignore it...

Snip... https://www.npr.org/2017/08/20/5442...e-built-to-further-a-white-supremacist-future

Still, in 1948, the statues went up.

"Who erects a statue of former Confederate generals on the very heels of fighting and winning a war for democracy?" writes Dailey, in a piece for HuffPost, referencing the just-ended World War II. "People who want to send a message to black veterans, the Supreme Court, and the president of the United States, that's who."

Statues and monuments are often seen as long-standing, permanent fixtures, but such memorabilia take effort, planning and politics to get placed, especially on government property. In an interview with NPR, Dailey said it's impossible to separate symbols of the Confederacy from the values of white supremacy. In comparing Robert E. Lee to Presidents George Washington and Thomas Jefferson on Tuesday,


In the early 1900s, states were enacting Jim Crow laws to disenfranchise black Americans. In the middle part of the century, the civil rights movement pushed back against that segregation.
James Grossman, the executive director of the American Historical Association, says that the increase in statues and monuments was clearly meant to send a message.
"These statues were meant to create legitimate garb for white supremacy," Grossman said. "Why would you put a statue of Robert E. Lee or Stonewall Jackson in 1948 in Baltimore?"
Here is a graphic of confederate monuments building activity... notice how they match up with the Jim Crow and Civil Rights eras...

A timeline of the genesis of the Confederate sites shows two notable spikes. One comes around the turn of the 20th century, just after Plessy v. Ferguson, and just as many Southern states were establishing repressive race laws. The second runs from the mid-1950s to the mid-1960s—the peak of the civil-rights movement. In other words, the erection of Confederate monuments has been a way to perform cultural resistance to black equality.





Interesting you would choose the modern day opinion of the Huffington Post, & a known hate group (The SPLC), over the actual people, & their own words, who put the monuments up.

Seems to me anyways, you are ignoring extremely relevant information to simply, reinforce your predetermined opinion.
 

Andersonh1

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Minutes of the Meeting Held for the Organization of the
Confederated Southern Memorial Association
Louisville KY
May 30th, 31st and June 1st, 1900
Searcy & Pfaff, Printers, Camp and Canal Streets

This is pretty much what it says on the cover, an attempt to unite a number of Southern Memorial Associations, and the various associations who participated sent delegates to the meeting. Minutes are not always terribly interesting.. people are nominated, motions are made and seconded, etc. However there are a few statements of motivation and purpose to be found in this short record of the meeting.

The C.S.M. Association was formally recognized by the U.C.V. amid great applause. General Gordon expressed his hearty approval of the Southern Memorial Associations and said he would have the Memorial read at once. Col. Chas. Coffin of Ark., then came forward and in a most impressive manner read the following Memorial.

General John B. Gordon, Commander-in-chief United Confederate Veterans: Dear Sir: - Throughout the south are scattered memorial associations, who have not relinquished their original organization, and whose work is solely memorial and monumental.

These associations (some of which were formed as far back as 1865), by the most assidious effort, have removed from wayside and battle field our sacred dead, placed them in cemeteries of our own, and builded monuments that will bear lasting testimony to the courage, endurance, and patriotism of the Confederate soldiers.
 

Kirk's Raider's

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What did black people say about Confederate monuments during those times (late 1800s/early 1900s)? Did they denounce them?
Did they call them symbols of Jim Crow?...white supremacy? Did they call them "monuments to slavery?"

This is what the academic "elites" have been telling us for several years. Is it true, or are they lying their a$$ off?
They kept their true feelings to themselves least they by lynched.
Kirk's Raiders
 

Viper21

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Subjective.
Have you read their opinions on who are hate groups in this country...? Be a religious group, & anti-abortion = hate group. Be a religious group, & think homosexuality is wrong or a sin = hate group. Go on down the list of liberal ideology. Disagree = hate group.


That schitt happens, from both and multiple sides. Where is the middle?
Sometimes there is no middle. Only right & wrong. Anderson has posted some extremely relevant information in this thread. To ignore it all, for the opinion of the Huffington Post..?! o_O HP = Bias incarnate. Seriously... you think the modern opinion of some hipster, at the HP is more relevant, than the people who actually raised these monuments..? Like most of these hit pieces, completely unrelated info is in em, to you know, virtue signal. Alexander Stephens of course makes it into the article.

I wonder when the same folks will decry the Lincoln Memorial, & call for it's removal, or at minimum....... a contextual plaque showing his speech from the Lincoln/Douglas debate...?? I mean, as long as we're talking about fairness, & middle ground ya know..? My guess is never.
 
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