To erect a suitable Monument to their memory

[jgoodguy]

IMHO evaluating art such as Soviet Art, Nazi art, Communist Chinese art or even Hollywood art of the 1920s-30s without understanding the underlying society is useless.

 

[Andersonh1]

I still have not seen anyone demonstrate that black men of the era were afraid to speak out against Confederate memorials, or for that matter to link the two at all. I've already provided one story where a black man supported a Confederate memorial, in opposition to a white man who had spoken out against it. He didn't seem afraid to oppose a white man's opinion.

Here's a second example of black support for a monument, in this case one that's already up that isn't quite paid for and needs funds. Booker T. Washington supported at least this Confederate monument, to the extent that when asked about it he promised to "take up very carefully" the matter and "find some one to give the money that is still needed."

 

[Andersonh1]

CEREMONIES In Augusta, Georgia, Laying the Corner Stone OF THE Confederate Monument WITH ORATION BY GEN. CLEMENT A. EVANS, April 26, 1875, AND THE Unveiling and Dedication OF THE MONUMENT, WITH ORATION BY COL. CHARLES C. JONES, Jr., October 31, 1878.

https://ia800201.us.archive.org/16/items/ceremoniesinaugu00ladi/ceremoniesinaugu00ladi.pdf

YesterdayMr.JohnM. Parker,the contractor,commenced the work of laying the foundation for the proposed Confederate Monument,on Broad street, midway between Jackson and Mcintosh streets.

The first bricks of the foundation were laid by the officers of the Ladies' Memorial Association. About half-past three o'clock the ladies met at the site of the proposed monument, and going down into the excavation made for the foundation—where the ground was prepared, with brick and mortar at hand—took off their gloves and prepared themselves for work.

-------------------

In after years, these ladies and their posterity will look with pride upon the efforts they have unselfishly made to erect a monument to the brave Confederate soldiers, but their greatest pride will be in knowing that they laid the first brick of the foundation
​

As with the Forrest monument, we see former enemies paying tribute to their fallen opponents as the band of the 18th US Infantry played for this particular memorial day.

It was as novel as it was beautiful to see a portion of the regular army paying tribute to the dead of armies they had fought. It was but another token of that era of sincere peace and friendship upon which the whole country is now rapidly entering,when the animosities engendered by the strife are to be indeed forgotten, and the heroism, devotion and patriotism of all only remembered.​

From Gen. C. A. Evans speech:

The long dispute between the Northern and Southern sections as such, which began in earnest fifty years ago, which had its four years reaping on fields of fraternal carnage, and its ten years aftermatter of crimination, distrust and misrule, is, I fervently hope, practically drawing to a close. We at least are here to-day from all parts of the Nation—Confederates and Federals—native and foreign born, with our sons and daughters, to say with united voice, "let sectional strife cease!" We assemble at woman's call—a call that men may gladly obey—to lay the corner stone of a monument which the Ladies' Memorial Association will build in memory of the Confederate Cause and the Confederate Dead. Down beneath the surface, in the soil of the State of Georgia for which those soldiers bled, the same fair hands that waved them to the field of battle have laid the first seven solid bricks of that Memorial Monument which shall rise in granite and marble to say that thus the memory of those heroic men is rooted deeply in the hearts of their survivors.

--------------------

It is not man's privilege, but woman's to raise these memorials throughout the land. The fitness of things commands us to yield to her the foremost place in this pleasing duty. Her smile encouraged our ardent youth to put on the armor of war. Her voice cheered them into the thick of battle. Her sympathies followed them like angels through the dreary toils of camp and march and seige : her hands bound up their wounds, and her tears fell upon their cold, pale,bloody corpses. And before the smoke of battle had fairly cleared away, she stood up in Georgia, first of all, and said,"We will build memorials to our fallen men." It is her voice again calls us together now. And the response by this great multitude, composed of various civil orders and societies and military organizations, with citizens and matrons,young men and maidens, displays the depth and breadth of that popular sentiment which is in sympathy with the womanly pathos which prosecutes the memorial enterprise.

---------------------------

Lower down another graceful monument stands to witness the heartfelt reverence of the people for the valor that evoked its voice . And now when this shaft shall ascend from its spacious plinth it will be a lasting token of the public Spirit of reverence and affection with which the living honor the brave men who died in their behalf. That sentiment will take form in sculptured and lettered marble shaft . It will concrete in granite base. It will be crystallized into visible and beautiful form through the patriotic work of this Memorial Association. Is not this feeling that seeks expression by columns, or arches. or garlands most natural? Is not the sentiment that demands this monument most noble? Is not the monument itself the just due of those who asked no reward in dying for their country but to be remembered with affection ? It was all they asked—to be remembered.

Shall we not grant them that boon ? Can we forget those men? Can we ever dismiss from our minds the recollection of the buoyant and brave boys in gray who went gallantly to die for our State? Can any monument other than that invisible national reverence for patriotism, whose base spreads from ocean, to ocean, and whose pinnacle reaches the stars, that keep watch over their honored graves, satisfy the claims which those fallen men have upon us?
​

Evans also sees a civics lesson that will come from such memorials to the Confederate dead, so while we're going past just a memorial or a tombstone to the dead, in his opinion, the lesson he draws has nothing to do with race, and everything to do with love of country and patriotism.

I have no doubt of the public utility of all these monuments which gentle women are building everywhere. It is worthy this occasion to say that while the shaft which shall spring from this Spot. will be the tongue of popular sentiment it will also be a conservator of the popular patriotism; Such things make men love their country, because they teach that the‘country honors patriotic devotion. They will keep the popular heart drawn to the original principles and policies of this Government. For they are declarations of faith in those early maxims. They are not spears set against the common nation, but beacons to guide the young Southern statesmen w ho shall hereafter man the ship of the State. In common with others of like character which shall adorn every city of the South, this monument will mould and preserve Southern opinion . For the popular recollections of the brave and virtuous which it shall constantly awaken, and the recalling of the principles and actions of those who have borne noble parts in this life are the great conservators of popular character . Thus these monuments will serve the highest patriotic uses in their influences on the opinions and actions of the people. and by indirection at least will benefit not the South alone but the whole country also.
​

The Confederacy is gone, and the presence of the monuments demonstrates that.

One theme of two indissoluble thoughts—our Confederacy, our Dead—alone fills our mind and this theme must be dwelt upon without the indulgence of revengeful feelings. The monument itself will say to us that the Confederacy has expired. Its great life went out on the purple tide of blood that flowed from the hearts of its sons
​

During the decoration of the graves for this memorial day, the graves of 52 Federal soldiers buried in the same cemetery as the Confederates, were also decorated. Reconciliation seems very much to have been the theme of this particular memorial day.

Three years later the monument was finished and unveiled to the public. Like so many other Ladies Memorial Associations, the goal all along had been to care for the graves of the dead and to build a monument in their memory, and 13 years after the war they had achieved that goal.

​

 

[jgoodguy]

Attila the Hun made monuments of human skulls. Are his motivations determinate in judging those monuments?

 

[rittmeister]

Attila the Hun made monuments of human skulls. Are his motivations determinate in judging those monuments?

you can't judge someone's art by his daytime job

 

[O' Be Joyful]

Attila the Hun made monuments of human skulls. Are his motivations determinate in judging those monuments?

And the Romans made them out of marble. One must use the materials that are available, at hand or the heads.

 

[jgoodguy]

And the Romans made them out of marble. One must use the materials that are available, at hand or the heads.

Some of the Roman monuments had a message in marble skin to Attila's.

 

[jgoodguy]

you can't judge someone's art by his daytime job

Pile of skulls and daytime job of warlord suggests motivation.

 

[rittmeister]

Pile of skulls and daytime job of warlord suggests motivation.

nah - just a dude who takes recycling seriously

 

[jgoodguy]

nah - just a dude who takes recycling seriously

Caravans: A Novel of Afghanistan By James A. Michener
Link

“Genghis Khan destroyed Afghanistan. In one assault on The City he killed nearly a million people. That’s not a poetic figure. It’s fact. In Kandahar the slaughter was enormous. Some refugees fled to this caravanserai…this room. They were sure the Mongols wouldn’t find them here, but they did….

“….First Genghis erected a pole right through the roof. Then the Mongols took their prisoners and tied their hands. Laid the first batch on the floor over there and lashed their feet to the pole…That’s why the pillar is twelve feet across.”

…”They just kept on laying the prisoners down, one layer on top of the other until they reached the roof. They didn’t kill a single person that day, the Mongols, but they kept soldiers stationed with sticks to push back the tongues when they protruded. And while the pillar of people was still living – those that hadn’t been pressed to death – they called in masons to plaster over the whole affair. If you’d scrape away the plaster you’d find skulls. But the government takes a dim view of scraping. It’s a kind of national monument. The Caravanserai of the Tongues….”​

 

[Andersonh1]

Address of President Coolidge at the Confederate memorial,
Arlington National Cemetery, Virginia
Sunday, May 25, 1924
Washington, Government Printing Office, 1924

https://archive.org/details/addressofpreside00unit_2/mode/2up

Ah, for the days when a President of the United States showed respect for the Confederate dead. Trump, at least, is still willing to recognize the military talent of Robert E. Lee. This is a short speech, so I will post it all here.

My Fellow Countrymen:

If I am correctly informed by history, it is fitting that the Sabbath should be your Memorial Day. This follows from the belief that except for the forces of Oliver Cromwell no army was ever more thoroughly religious than that which followed General Lee. Moreover, these ceremonies necessarily are expressive of a hope and a belief that rise above the things of this life. It was Lincoln who pointed out that both sides prayed to the same God. When that is the case, it is only a matter of time when each will seek a common end. We can now see clearly what that end is. It is the maintenance of our American form of government, of our American institutions, of our American ideals, beneath a common flag, under the blessings of Almighty God.

It was for this purpose that our Nation was brought forth. Our whole course of history has been proceeding in that direction. Out of a common experience, made more enduring by a common sacrifice, we have reached a common conviction. On this day we pause in memory of those who made their sacrifice in one way. In a few days we shall pause again in memory of those who made their sacrifice in another way. They were all Americans, all contending for what they believed were their rights. On many a battle field they sleep side by side. Here, in a place set aside for the resting place of those who have performed military duty, both make a final bivouac. But their country lives.

The bitterness of conflict is passed. Time has softened; discretion has changed it. Your country respects you for cherishing the memory of those who wore the gray. You respect others who cherish the memory of those who wore the blue. In that mutual respect may there be a firmer friendship, a stronger and more glorious Union.

When I delivered the address dedicating the great monument to General Grant in the city of Washington, General Carr was present, with others of his comrades, and responded for the Confederacy with a most appropriate tribute. He has lately passed away, one of the last of a talented and gallant corps of officers. To the memory of him whom I had seen and heard and knew as the representative of that now silent throng, whom I did not know, I offer my tribute. We know that Providence would have it so. We see and we obey. A mightier force than ever followed Grant or Lee has leveled both their hosts, raised up an united Nation, and made us all partakers of a new glory. It is not for us to forget the past but to remember it, that we may profit by it. But it is gone; we can not change it. We must put our emphasis on the present and put into effect the lessons the past has taught us. All about us sleep those of many different beliefs and many divergent actions. But America claims them all. Her flag floats over them all. Her Government protects them all. They all rest in the same divine peace.
​

 

[Wehrkraftzersetzer]

a suitable monument?

 

[Tom]

Savannah Tribune (AA newspaper)

1897


1900


1909

 

[Andersonh1]

Here's an amazing front page for the Richmond Times, May 30 1894.

"To the Valor of the Private Soldiers and Sailors of the Confederacy."

 

[Viper21]

We hear a lot of accusations today that Confederate memorials that dot the Southern landscape are "monuments to white supremacy", placed there "to intimidate the black population", and therefore they are racist and should be removed.

Pretty good thread so far Anderson. I see lots of evidence presented that plenty of the memorials, are just exactly as we've presented over the years. Monuments to the dead. Monuments honoring the sacrifices of so many of the Souths Son's, Father's, & Husband's.

Whenever this subject comes up, we hear lots of belly aching about white supremacy, racism, etc... Yet, the evidence doesn't point in that direction. The evidence suggests, much of that is as suspected, modern politics at play.

 

[Andersonh1]

LETTER FROM PRESIDENT JEFFERSON DAVIS,
on Laying the Corner Stone of the Confederate Monument
At MACON, GEORGIA, April 26th, A. 13., 1878.

I've posted this letter from Jefferson Davis in its entirety. There is a lot to unpack here as Davis not only extols the virtues of the Confederate soldier and of the women who worked so hard on the home front, but he also fiercely defends the cause in which the men died and their memory ("Let not any of their survivors impugn their faith by offering the penitential plea that "they believed they were right."), and notes that the monument "... is not their reward, but our debt." The survivors owe it to those who died to remember them and to see that future generations remember them.

I sincerely regret my inability to be present at the laying of the corner stone of "a monument to be erected at Macon, Ga., in honor of our dead Confederate soldiers."

The event possesses every attraction to me: it is inspired by the Ladies' Memorial Association; the monument is to be located in the keystone State of the Confederate arch; and to commemorate the sacrifices of those who died in the defense of our inherited and "inalienable" rights.

What though we were overborne by numbers, and accessories not less efficient, truth is not to be measured by success in maintaining it against force; nor is the glory less of him who upholds it in the face of unequal odds, but is it not rather more to his credit that he counted all else as dust in the balance when weighed with honor and duty. On many a stricken field our soldiers stood few and faint, but fearless still, for they wore the panoply of unquestioning confidence in the rectitude of their cause, and knew how to die but not to surrender. Let not any of their survivors impugn their faith by offering the penitential plea that "they believed they were right."

Be it ours to transmit to posterity our unequivocal testimony to the justice of their convictions, to their virtues, and the sanctity of the motives by which they were actuated.

It is meet that this monument should have originated with the ladies of the land, whose self-denial was conspicuous through all the trials and sufferings of war, whose gentle ministrations in the hospitals,and at way-side refectories, so largely contributed to relieve the sick and the wounded, and whose unfaltering devotion to their country's cause in the darkest hours of our struggle, illustrated the fidelity of the sex which was last at the cross, and first at the sepulchre.

I am profoundly thankful to them for inviting me to represent them, as their orator, on the approaching occasion. Had it been practicable to accept, their request would have been, to me,a command, obeyed with no other reluctance,than the consciousness of inability to do justice to the theme.

Thanks to the merits of our Confederate Dead, they need neither orator nor bard to commend their deeds to the present generation of their countrymen. Many fell far from home and kindred, and sleep in unmarked graves; but all are gathered in the love of those for whom they died, and their memories are hallowed in the hearts of all true Confederates.

By the pious efforts of our people, many humble cemeteries, such as in their impoverishment were possible, have been prepared,and the Confederate Dead have been collected in them from neighboring battlefields. There annually,with reverential affection, the graves, alike of the known and the unknown, are decked with vernal flowers, expressive of gratitude renewable forever, and typical of the hope of a resurrection and reunion where the wicked cease from troubling and the weary are at rest.

To be remembered, honored, beloved by their people is the reward bestowed on our Confederate Dead. It is the highest which a good and purely patriotic man could desire. Should it be asked, why then build this monument? the answer is, they do not need it, but posterity may. It is not their reward, but our debt. If the greatest gift a hero gives his race, is to have been a hero, in order that this gift may be utilized to coming generations, its appreciation by contemporaries should be rendered as visible and enduring as possible. Let the monument,rising from earth toward heaven, lift the minds of those who come after us, to a higher standard than the common test of success. Let it teach that man is born for duty, not for expediency; that when an attack is made on the community to which he belongs, by which he is protected, and to which his allegiance is due, his first obligation is to defend that community; and that under such conditions it is better to have "fought and lost, than never to have fought at all." Let posterity learn by this monument that you commemorate men who died in a defensive war; that they did not, as has been idly stated, submit to the arbitrament of arms the questions at issue— questions which involved the inalienable rights inherited from their ancestors, and held in trust for their posterity; but that they strove to maintain the State sovereignty which their Fathers left them, and which it was their duty if possible to transmit to their Children.

Away then with such feeble excuse for the abandonment of principles,which may be crushed for a while, but which possessing the eternal vitality of truth, must in its own good time prevail over perishable error.

Let this monument teach that heroism derives its lustre from the justice of the cause in which it is displayed, and let it mark the difference between a war waged for the robber-like purpose of conquest, and one to repel invasion—to defend a people's hearths and altars, and to maintain their laws and liberties. Such was the war in which our heroes fell, and theirs is the crown which sparkles with the gems of patriotism and righteousness,with a glory undimmed by any motive of aggrandisement or intent to inflict ruin on others. We present them to posterity as examples to be followed, and wait securely for the verdict of mankind when knowledge shall have dispelled misrepresentation and delusion. Is it unreasonable to hope that mature reflection and a closer study of the political history of the Union, may yet restore the rights prostrated by the passions developed in our long and bloody war? If however it should be otherwise,then from our heroes'graves shall come in mournful tones the

"Answer fit;
And if our children must obey,
They must,but thinking on our day,
T'will less debase them to submit."

Yours faithfully,
JEFFERSON DAVIS.​

 

[Andersonh1]

REPORT OF THE MONUMENT COMMITTEE
RICHARD B. HAUGHTON, Chairman
ELEVENTH ANNUAL REUNION CONVENTION
United Sons of Confederate Veterans
NEW ORLEANS, LA.
APRIL 25-27, 1906


There are a number of small hints that can be gleaned from what is in many respects a dry report on the Monument Committee's status and progress, so I'll pull what I can from it in order to understand what they were thinking at the time. This particular booklet was reprinted from the Minutes of the reunion, so it's an excerpt from a larger volume, and the following reason is given:

This separate is issued in the hope that greater interest in the subject matter of the report may be aroused. It is also issued in order that greater publicity may be given the work of the Committee than can be gained by the limited circulation of the volume from which it is taken. Interest in the relief, monument and historical work of the United Sons of Confederate Veterans is growing constantly. It is felt that it must be still further developed and encouraged before the Confederation meets its full duty. — Editor.
​

The USCV had a constitution, which I will have to see if I can find a copy of online. It's mentioned and quoted here:

Our constitution contains the following provisions as to this committee: It "shall have charge of all matters relating to
monuments, graves and the Confederation's objects and purposes in these respects."—Section 94. One of the objects of our Confederation is "to urge and aid the erection of enduring monuments to our great leaders and heroic soldiers, sailors and people, and to mark with suitable headstones the graves of the Confederate dead wherever found."—Section 8.
​

Much of the booklet is a catalog of monuments that had already been erected at that point. In looking through these, the vast majority are to specific groups, and I'll cite just a few examples:

Auburn: in cemetery; to ninety-eight Confederate soldiers buried there; by Ladies' Memorial Association; unveiled April 26, 1893; cost, $500.

Eufaula: in the public square; to Confederate dead of Barbour County, Ala.; by U. D. C; unveiled November 24, 1904; cost, $3,000.

Gainesville: in the cemetery; to Confederate dead; by Ladies' Memorial Association; unveiled April 26, 1876; cost, $2,000

Jacksonville: in cemetery; to Maj. John Pelham; by U. D. C; unveiled October 10, 1905.

Atlanta: in Oakland cemetery ; to the Confederate dead ; by Ladies' Memorial Association; unveiled April 26, 1874; cost, $17,000.

Pine Mountain: on the top where Gen. Leonidas Polk was killed; to his memory; by J. Gidd Morris and wife; unveiled April 10, 1902; cost, $5OO

Greenville: on public square; cost, $2,000
​

The list is very long and often includes where the particular monument was cited, i.e. the local newspaper, the Confederate Veteran, etc. Facts that the committee considered interesting were included after the list, including the first Confederate monument erected, and a number that individuals had put up with their own money. They also list a few that were in northern or western states, and they discuss the importance of marking battlefields and cemeteries.

The booklet ends with an exhortation:

Our members should in all ways possible strive to aid energetically every movement that is made towards the erection of
memorials and monuments, and they should go further than this. They should inaugurate such movements themselves and press them, forward to successful conclusion. It is a very simple matter, if they go into it in a true spirit of earnestness. There is no doubt more money wasted every year by the Sons of Confederate soldiers than would be required to erect a monument in every county in the South, and if our members will only give proper heed to the matter they could soon have this most desirable result accomplished.

Their fathers went through untold suffering and misery, and many of them gave up their lives to confer upon the sons a
heritage that is not surpassed in the annals of the world, and a spirit of fairness, to say nothing of filial respect and gratitude, should prompt our members to exert every effort to commemorate their patriotism by fitting memorials in enduring stone.

​

 

[Tom]

https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=loc.ark:/13960/t9x06wk66&view=1up&seq=3 (1902)

 

[Andersonh1]

https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=loc.ark:/13960/t9x06wk66&view=1up&seq=3 (1902)

Great, thanks! I will add it to the collection, and see if anything relevant can be found in it. I'm guessing so.

edit: as it turns out, no more than we've already seen.

Constitution of the United Sons of Confederate Veterans
Revised and Adopted at the Seventh Annual Reunion, Dallas TX April 22-25, 1902

Constitution of the United Sons of Confederate Veterans. Revised and adopted at the seventh annual reunion, Dallas, Texas, April 22d to 25th, 1902.

The few references to Confederate monuments are as follows:

Sec. 8.—To urge and aid the erection of enduring monuments to our great leaders and heroic soldiers, sailors, and people, and to mark with suitable headstones the graves of Confederate dead wherever found.

--------------
Sec. 94.—Monumental Committee, that shall have charge of all matters relating to monuments, graves and the Confederation's objects and purposes in these respects;​

 

[Andersonh1]

Confederate memorial addresses. Monday, May 11, 1885, New Bern, N. C.
Ladies Memorial Association of New Bern, N.C.
Richmond, Va., Whittet & Shepperson, 1886.

http://hdl.handle.net/2027/loc.ark:/13960/t9086jk11

This booklet consists of a history of the Ladies' Memorial Association of New Bern, NC, a biographical sketch of J. Johnston Pettigrew, and address on the unveiling of the Confederate monument, and a few other items, and is another good place to look for both meaning of the monument and the motivation for having it installed. Much of it will be very familiar as the women who lost men in the war do what they can to memorialize them.

The large-hearted women of New Bern determined, in some way, to commemorate the devotion of the dead Confederate soldiers of this section of the old North State.​

They were supported and aided by the city and moved forward with their work, which included building a mausoleum and monument to the Confederate dead of their city. The monument is described as "their crowning work".

Above this mausoleum, on the summit of the mound, stands the Association's crowning work —the beautiful monument reproduced in the frontispiece. It rises from a bottom base, four feet square, to a total height of eighteen feet. The bottom and subbase, die and shaft, are of fine Rutland blue marble. The life-size statue on top was cut, after a design expressly for this monument, by the best workman in Carrara, Italy. It represents a Confederate soldier in uniform and overcoat, on picket, with every sense awake as he keenly watches for the slightest hostile movement. Calm, faithful, brave, he will never be surprised. A noble face and figure, a typical hero from the ranks !​

After the address on the life of General Pettigrew, the Rev. L. C. Vass gave an address on "unveiling the Confederate monument", and among the many other things he said, gave the following thoughts on the meaning of the memorial:

When we unveil this statue to-day, it will stand a monument, not only to the gallant soldiers, but also a monument to the loving zeal of the honored leader of the Memorial Association, the late President Elizabeth Batchelor Daves.

--------------

It is an honor to celebrate the fame of the noble. A good name is a coveted inheritance. It surely is a supreme satisfaction, not only not to be ashamed of our ancestors, but to be able to point to their worth with confidence, to live in their reflected light, and to be elevated in sentiment and life by imitation of their distinguished achievements.

---------------

To-day, then, with equal pride and pleasure we rejoice, that in our poverty, but in our honor, we are come to offer a fitting testimonial to the memory of the true and the brave, who at their country's call hasted to the fray, and endured to the death.

-----------------

In the spring-tide of this glorious light, on this radiant afternoon, this monument is placed here with its marble soldier —his rifle grounded — to celebrate and honor for ever the worthy deeds of our gallant dead, Confederate warriors.

------------

And now evil passions are beginning to be laid to rest, and friend and foe are joining in admiring true courage and devotion to duty. So we gladly and fltly uncover our Memorial Statue to public gaze and to history, in honor of the brave who sleep in their last bivouac—in the camping ground of stainless fame. As these noble ladies of the New Bern Memorial Association now unveil this monument dedicated to heroes, let these shot-torn battle flags wave their salute, and let glad shouts arise from every tongue; and let us cherish ever, and proclaim the virtues of our Confederate brothers, soldiers, patriots!​