What If There Are No Swing Voters?

Kirk's Raider's

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Seriously? Of all the complaints that one could level against the rich, the complaint that "they don't pay their fair share" is not supported by any facts at all. The numbers say they pay far more than their fair share.

https://taxfoundation.org/summary-latest-federal-income-tax-data-2018-update/
  • In 2016, the top 50 percent of all taxpayers paid 97 percent of all individual income taxes, while the bottom 50 percent paid the remaining 3 percent.
  • The top 1 percent paid a greater share of individual income taxes (37.3 percent) than the bottom 90 percent combined (30.5 percent).
  • The top 1 percent of taxpayers paid a 26.9 percent individual income tax rate, which is more than seven times higher than taxpayers in the bottom 50 percent (3.7 percent).

High-Income Taxpayers Paid Majority of Federal Income Taxes
In 2016, the bottom 50 percent of taxpayers (those with AGI below $40,078) earned 11.6 percent of total AGI. This group of taxpayers paid $43.9 billion in taxes, or roughly 3 percent of all income taxes in 2016.

In contrast, the top 1 percent of all taxpayers (taxpayers with AGI of $480,804 and above), earned 19.7 percent of all AGI in 2016, and paid 37.3 percent of all federal income taxes.

In 2016, the top 1 percent of taxpayers accounted for more income taxes paid than the bottom 90 percent combined. The top 1 percent of taxpayers paid roughly $538 billion, or 37.3 percent of all income taxes, while the bottom 90 percent paid about $440 billion, or 30.5 percent of all income taxes.​
Average wages are so low that the majority of taxpayers simply can't pay that much income tax.
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Andersonh1

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Until President Regan they paid a whole lot more.
There is only so many ways the economic pie can be sliced. Right now less the one percent of the US population has the majority of wealth and people are sleeping on the streets in in their cars.
Eventually the Peasents will rise up unless things change.
FDR saved capitalism by somewhat redistributing wealth. It needs to be done again.
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Looking at the tax numbers, it sure looks like the "rich" are paying the taxes for everyone else. Anger at them makes no sense, except for the existence of envy. There is no reason anyone should care what anyone else makes, or how much money they have, or how much they pay in taxes, but people do.

I am entitled to what I earn, and that's it.
 

Andersonh1

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Average wages are so low that the majority of taxpayers simply can't pay that much income tax.
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Nor should they, even if wages were higher! Far too much of people's income is taken by the government as it is.
 

5fish

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In 2016, the top 50 percent of all taxpayers paid 97 percent of all individual income taxes, while the bottom 50 percent paid the remaining 3 percent.
You got caught in the marginal tax game stat...

https://www.theatlantic.com/notes/2...hare-more-on-the-history-of-tax-rates/581407/

Total taxes paid out of income and the wealthy income taxes keep getting lowered... the bottom poor 50% pay 25%of their income in taxes. The bottom are carrying a bigger burden because they can afford to lose 25% of their wealth while the top 1% can lose 35% income to taxes and feel no pain...





But the historical record is worth being aware of. Now, readers with additional info and reactions.

1) What people actually paid. A reader sends this chart, from a 2017 paper by the economists Thomas Piketty, Emmanuel Saez, and Gabriel Zucman, showing who has borne the effective burden of taxation, over the decades. It’s worth looking at closely.

The chart shows average tax rates—the share of total income actually paid in taxes—rather than marginal rates. The steady increase in average taxes for the bottom 50% is driven mainly by rising payroll taxes.
 

Kirk's Raider's

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Nor should they, even if wages were higher! Far too much of people's income is taken by the government as it is.
On the other hand people like government spending and the government especially under Trump is racking up huge deficits.
If people want to pay low taxes then they need to accept low government services.
There is no such thing as a free lunch.
Also American income taxes for the wealthy have been dramatically declining since the 1980s.
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Kirk's Raider's

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Looking at the tax numbers, it sure looks like the "rich" are paying the taxes for everyone else. Anger at them makes no sense, except for the existence of envy. There is no reason anyone should care what anyone else makes, or how much money they have, or how much they pay in taxes, but people do.

I am entitled to what I earn, and that's it.
The French Royalty felt the exact same way and paid the price.
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Andersonh1

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You got caught in the marginal tax game stat...
It's a question of how much of the total taxes paid by all income brackets is paid by each income level. Can the rich afford to pay a larger percentage of their income, and are they less affected by that? I think we would have to say yes. Are those with a lower income hit harder, even with a lower tax rate? Yes, they are. But that does not change the fact that the rich are not only paying "their fair share" (whatever that subjective phrase means), they're paying a lot more than the rest of us. I have a hard time resenting them for that.
 

Andersonh1

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The French Royalty felt the exact same way and paid the price.
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I wonder if the French royalty were as generous to charity or if they invested their money in the economy creating jobs and thus incomes as the American wealthy do? Please, there is no comparison. Bill Gates is not hoarding his wealth, telling the poor to go eat cake....
 

5fish

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s as the American wealthy do?
The American wealthy Hoard their wealth... The American wealthy do not have your interest at all.

The marginal stat game you played, here where wealth is: very few grew their wealth, born into it.

snip... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wealth_inequality_in_the_United_States

In 2007, the top 20% wealthiest possessed 80% of all financial assets.[21] In 2007 the richest 1% of the American population owned 35% of the country's total wealth, and the next 19% owned 51%. Thus, the top 20% of Americans owned 86% of the country's wealth and the bottom 80% of the population owned 14%. In 2011, financial inequality was greater than inequality in total wealth, with the top 1% of the population owning 43%, the next 19% of Americans owning 50%, and the bottom 80% owning 7%.[22] However, after the Great Recession which started in 2007, the share of total wealth owned by the top 1% of the population grew from 35% to 37%, and that owned by the top 20% of Americans grew from 86% to 88%. The Great Recession also caused a drop of 36% in median household wealth, but a drop of only 11% for the top 1%, further widening the gap between the top 1% and the bottom 99%.[20][22][23]

According to PolitiFact and others, in 2011 the 400 wealthiest Americans have more wealth than half of all Americans combined.[24][25] Inherited wealth may help explain why many Americans who have become rich may have had a substantial head start.[26][27] In September 2012, according to the Institute for Policy Studies, over 60 percent of the Forbes richest 400 Americans grew up in substantial privilege.[28]


Snip... income wrong measure...

There is an important distinction between income and wealth. Income refers to a flow of money over time in the form of a rate (per hour, per week, or per year); wealth is a collection of assets owned minus liabilities. In essence, income is specifically what people receive through work, retirement, or social welfare whereas wealth is what people own.[42] While the two are seemingly related, income inequality alone is insufficient for understanding economic inequality for two reasons:
  1. It does not accurately reflect an individual's economic position
  2. Income does not portray the severity of financial inequality in the United States.
 

Viper21

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The American wealthy Hoard their wealth... The American wealthy do not have your interest at all.
So. What makes you the authority to decide how wealthy people should spend their money...?

How much is enough @Kirk's Raider's @5fish ..? Seriously. At what point are people taxed enough....? Why do y'all resent successful people..?

Some folks just aren't financially ambitious. Other folks are driven by financial success. Either is fine, imo. Although, plenty of folks that are in higher tax brackets, made many sacrifices to achieve the level of financial success they have. I find it odd being that, the system would collapse without their contributions yet, to some folks, they don't pay enough...? o_O
 

Kirk's Raider's

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I wonder if the French royalty were as generous to charity or if they invested their money in the economy creating jobs and thus incomes as the American wealthy do? Please, there is no comparison. Bill Gates is not hoarding his wealth, telling the poor to go eat cake....
Who cares how much rich folks give to charity. If people are struggling even when working hard and there boos in hundreds of times wealthier then them eventually said poor people will have nothing to loose by rebelling.
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Kirk's Raider's

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So. What makes you the authority to decide how wealthy people should spend their money...?

How much is enough @Kirk's Raider's @5fish ..? Seriously. At what point are people taxed enough....? Why do y'all resent successful people..?

Some folks just aren't financially ambitious. Other folks are driven by financial success. Either is fine, imo. Although, plenty of folks that are in higher tax brackets, made many sacrifices to achieve the level of financial success they have. I find it odd being that, the system would collapse without their contributions yet, to some folks, they don't pay enough...? o_O
The FDR and Eisenhower era would be a good starting point to tax rich folk.
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Andersonh1

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Who cares how much rich folks give to charity.
I promise you, a lot of people who benefit from those charities care, very much.

If people are struggling even when working hard and there boos in hundreds of times wealthier then them eventually said poor people will have nothing to loose by rebelling.
Let me know when it happens. I won't hold my breath waiting. :)
 

Viper21

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I promise you, a lot of people who benefit from those charities care, very much.
It ain't just rich folks either. I know MANY people, who donate time, & money, to various charities. Most of whom, live pretty modest lives, with pretty modest means themselves.
 

5fish

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Wehrkraftzersetzer

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It ain't just rich folks either. I know MANY people, who donate time, & money, to various charities. Most of whom, live pretty modest lives, with pretty modest means themselves.
I prefer the rich to donate nothing, but pay proper taxes.

Donating always follows an agenda (the agenda of the donor which nearly never is the agenda of society)
 
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