What the Newspapers Said: The Black Confederate “Myth” Examined

jgoodguy

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It's obvious who and what the stories are about. And do you ever get tired of playing the "we can't agree on a definition" game? Pick one and start evaluating. That's what I've done. Otherwise it's just arguing for the sake of arguing, and no answers will ever be arrived at.
My definition really does not matter, only if you have a valid definition.
Let's try 'Black Confederate' is an armed, uniformed and visibly black as a slave, soldier in a recognized CSA Army unit, we have a unit designation and a muster roll. That can be proven with evidence.

Anything else not so much.
 
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jgoodguy

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No, it's not, because the word "colored", "negro" and "black" were often used interchangeably.


Which side was Louisiana aligned with at the time of the existence of the Native Guard? The idea that they were not Confederate is absurd, of course they were. They were a volunteer military unit of a Confederate state, what else could they be? Answers on a postcard, please.



Please provide a source that demonstrates this, preferably orders from the state militia or commentary from the state house or senate. The Governor certainly recognized them as soldiers since her authorized their existence as a military unit, which as commander in chief of the state militia he had the authority to do. Since the duly authorized authority recognized them, your statement is false.



Who was responsible for uniforming the state militia? How about volunteer state troops? Regulations, please. Provide proof that the Native Guard were treated any differently than other state military units.



What do you based this on? The militia law requiring "white men" was not substantially different than the 1853 law in place when the Native Guard was formed.



The governor called on them to "maintain their organization" in his orders. You don't maintain things that don't exist, you can only maintain pre-existing things. The wording indicates that they were not disbanded, but still in existence.



Why were better weapons not available? Do you know?



Were they abandoned? Or did they remain behind? Evidence please.

From what I see here, you have very little actual understanding of who these men were, and how their organization was authorized. I'm not sure you're able to make an accurate judgment about their status.
The author of the Abbeville article said.
Modern critics of my even mentioning these men would say that they were not in fact Confederate soldiers, and to the extent that they were Louisiana state volunteer troops rather than enlisted in the Confederate army, that is true, though in response I would have to ask just what uniform they wore, and which side they were aligned with. The answer seems obvious. Many contemporary newspapers did not make the same fine distinctions as some modern historians either. To them, an armed and uniformed man in any Southern state’s military was considered Confederate.
The author seems to be saying that his interpretation that the men in question were soldiers is the only rational interpretation. All I have to do is show that that assertion is overblown. I do not have to show the men were not 'soldiers' only that other interpretations exist and that they are reasonable interpretations.
It appears to me that it is a struggle of logic to show the men of the Native Guard were Confederate soldiers.

Did the Native Guard fight for the CSA? no.
Did the Native Guard fight for the State of Louisiana? no.
Did the Native Guard fight at all? no.
Did the Native Guard have CSA officers in command? no.
Was the Native Guard part of the CSA Army? no
Was the Native Guard a part of the Louisiana State Army? no.
Was the Native Guard trained in the manual of arms? no.
Was the Native Guard trained in military formation and drill? no.
Was the Native Guard a part of the Lousiana Militia. No, they were a separate volunteer unit until the Militia was reorganized and then the Native Guard was disbanded by law. Link
Louisiana Native Guards: The Black Military Experience During the Civil War
By James G. Hollandsworth, Jr. P8-9
upload_2019-10-12_22-20-14.png
upload_2019-10-12_22-24-51.png
 
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jgoodguy

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Publicized and published are two different things. The free black men of Louisiana had a letter published in the Delta, and the Cincinnati Daily Press publicized it elsewhere. I don't see that you have a real problem here, just nitpicking for the sake of it.
If it was printed then it was published. Definition of published 1: produced or released for distribution in a book, magazine, newspaper, etc.citing a variety of published sources. How is something publicized without publishing?
Definition of publicize
: to bring to the attention of the public : ADVERTISE
Is it your position that the Cincinnati Daily Press was advertising that event? I say it was just printing a news item.
 
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O' Be Joyful

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The desperation of the times, upon occasion required radical means, which may also have necessitated the forbearance of ingrained ideas of racial segregation. Whether black, mulatto, quadroon, octoroon, or whatever (and what's the diff.) If societal pressure is coming down upon one or all it is "demanded" that they conform.

At that moment in time of course.... we ain't in the pre-20th century now...are we?
 

jgoodguy

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The desperation of the times, upon occasion required radical means, which may also have necessitated the forbearance of ingrained ideas of racial segregation. Whether black, mulatto, quadroon, octoroon, or whatever (and what's the diff.) If societal pressure is coming down upon one or all it is "demanded" that they conform.

At that moment in time of course.... we ain't in the pre-20th century now...are we?
OTOH it could be simply you put different colored folks to stand between you and the enemy.
 
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Kirk's Raider's

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The desperation of the times, upon occasion required radical means, which may also have necessitated the forbearance of ingrained ideas of racial segregation. Whether black, mulatto, quadroon, octoroon, or whatever (and what's the diff.) If societal pressure is coming down upon one or all it is "demanded" that they conform.

At that moment in time of course.... we ain't in the pre-20th century now...are we?
The only countries that I know of that specifically had mixed race military units was the Republic of South Africa which had the Cape Coloured Corps latter renamed Cape Corps. This unit was actually very old and first established by the Dutch in the 1700s. The South West African Territorial Force also had a separate Coloured unit maybe a battalion.
The Rhodesian Army also had a separate or several separate Coloured units.
So yes there is a difference between native African and mixed race people at least in the eyes of white authorities engaged in the armed forces.
Kirk's Raider's
 

jgoodguy

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Let's take another look at newspaper articles regarding the Native Guards.

https://www.abbevilleinstitute.org/...ers-said-the-black-confederate-myth-examined/

THE FREE COLORED SOLDIERS. – We some days ago mentioned that the Creole free colored population downtown had taken the war question into consideration, and determined to offer their services to Gov. Moore, for home defence. At the meeting held for this purpose, some 1500 men were present. With one voice and with the greatest enthusiasm they agreed to offer themselves, and did so. The Governor accepted them, and they are now forming companies, as their fathers and grandfathers did in 1814 and ’15. Should their services be needed, they will be among our hardest and best fighters. Jordan Noble, better known as “Old Jordan,” the Drummer of Chalmette, is raising a free colored company; and we learn a similar company is being organized in Jefferson City. When the down-town free colored men form their regiment (and it will be a rousing one.) they will make a show as pleasing to all, as it will be surprising to many of our population. We will give further particulars as the organization progresses. – New Orleans Daily Crescent. April 27, 1861
They are not described as 'Confederate' soldiers. Their service is for 'home defense'. They are not described as 'Black Confederates'

In New Orleans, there was an assemblage of over two thousand, when speeches were made – some in French, by the French negroes, that is, negroes from that part of the city where French is the only language among white and black – resolutions were passed tendering their services to the Confederate States. – Orleans Independent Standard. (Irasburgh, Vt.) 1856-1871, May 24, 1861

They are not described as 'Confederate' soldiers. They were not accepted into the 'Confederate States' Army. They are not described as 'Black Confederates'

OUR FREE COLORED MEN. – Our free colored men of the Barthelemy Settlement – who are certainly as much attached to the land of their birth as any of their white brethren born in Louisiana – we are happy to say, have formed themselves into an infantry company, and have elected Victor Reaud, Esq., their commander. If ever called into the field, the free colored men of the Barthelemy Settlement – who, by-the-by, own quite a large number of slaves – will fight the Black Republican hordes with as much determination and gallantry as any body of white men in the service of the Confederate States. – New Orleans Daily Crescent, May 29, 1861
They are not described as 'Confederate' soldiers. Their service is for 'home defense'. They are not described as 'Black Confederates'

Colored Soldiers. – Col. F. L. Claiborne, of Pointe Coupee, has organized a company of eighty of the free colored men of his parish, and says his company will compete for the honor of taking Old Abe captive. – New Orleans Daily Crescent, May 21, 1861

They are not described as 'Confederate' soldiers. They are not described as 'Black Confederates'

The lack of contemporary use of 'Black Confederate' means that it is a modern term, an anachronism that somehow must square the circle of the lack of contemporary mid 19th century use. The simplest way is to have Blacks in Confederate Army units with unit designations and muster rolls in the CSA chain of command. Lacking that makes any use of the term 'Black Confederate' open to interpretation. In the case of the Native Guards, they were never in CSA service. The backdoor is to claim that Blacks in State service are really in Confederate service by reason their State is a Confederate State. Black State Confederates somehow Black Confederates. In the case of the Native Guards, they never served in a State unit only in a local defense volunteer unit and in the end, never served the State of Louisiana in a military role. Maybe they are soldiers and maybe not. One can play with the term 'soldier' all day. They are not Confederats States soldiers. Dissing credential historians is not a solution to that problem.
 

5fish

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I do not think a myth
And @Viper21 the Native Guard never fought for the South but did fight for the Union at Port Hudson... I think I found a nice brief account of the Native Guard History in the civil war. The link for details...

LINK:http://naucenter.as.virginia.edu/blog-page/931

Snippets...

For black men in Louisiana, however, involvement began over two years earlier, with the formation of a Confederate militia to be drawn from the state’s significant population of free men of color. They were called the First Native Guards. This organization would disband a year later when New Orleans fell to Union forces, but some of the men who had served in the militia would go on to become the first black soldiers to enlist in the Union army in 1862.

Snip... The first Blacks to enlist in the union army and names...

There were at least ten men born in Albemarle County that enlisted in the Union army in Louisiana. Three of them enlisted at the beginning of the Louisiana Native Guards’ service: Miles Lucius, Stephan Washington, and Horace Washington. These were likely the first three men from Albemarle County that enlisted in the Union army. There are also five who enlisted after the Native Guards’ designation changed to the Corps d’Afrique. We know a good deal about the lives of three of these five, Horace Barlow, Aaron Burr, and William Cary, because of the pensions they filed after the war. The other two men who enlisted in the Corps D’Afrique were Joseph Yates and Joshua Anderson. Finally, Estin Bon and Willis Carr, enlisted in Louisiana in late 1864 after the Corps d’Afrique units had been renamed with standardized U.S. Colored Troop designations. The regiments that the Virginia-born men joined would go on to participate in some of the most significant operations in Louisiana, including the battles of Port Hudson and Fort Blakely as well as the Red River Campaign.

Snip...

The 1st Louisiana Native Guards Infantry Regiment mustered in on September 27, 1862. Soon after, the Louisiana Native Guards added two additional infantry regiments – the 2nd on October 12 and the 3rd on November 24. Though the initial call was for free men, regiments were increasingly composed of runaway slaves who had fled behind Union lines during the occupation of New Orleans. Two of the men from Albemarle County, Miles Lucius and Stephan Washington, enlisted in the 3rd Louisiana Native Guards at its initial organization.

Snip...


In the face of the racial turmoil surrounding their enlistment, the soldiers of the Native Guards began to carry out their duty. The army intended to use them primarily in non-combat roles such as building, digging, and clearing land, as many Union officers held the same prejudices as the citizens of New Orleans. Several months after the first regiments mustered in, however, some were given the first real chance to prove their combat abilities.

On May 23, 1863 the 1st and 3rd Regiments joined other Union forces under the command of Maj. Gen. Nathaniel P. Banks at Port Hudson, Louisiana, where they were attempting to overtake the Confederate stronghold. Gen. Banks ordered a full assault on rebel forces on May 27. The Native Guards led a brave, but chaotic charge before falling back with numerous casualties, largely due to incompetent direction from Brigadier General William Dwight Jr., who was drunk. This was one of several failed assaults on the Confederate line that day, and a temporary ceasefire was called so that the men could tend to their dead and wounded.

Despite their somewhat disastrous involvement in the May 27 assault, the overall impression of the ability of the Native Guards was a positive one. General Banks lauded their bravery in personal letters and northern newspapers printed exaggerated tales of numerous heroic charges. James Miller, a Union soldier quoted in James G. Hollandsworth’s The Louisiana Native Guards, wrote in his diary that “all accounts are [that] the Negro fought well, bravely begging their chance to lead the charge.”

The link above gives detail of the racial abuse they took... and later more details about the men...
 

Andersonh1

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Let's take another look at newspaper articles regarding the Native Guards.

https://www.abbevilleinstitute.org/...ers-said-the-black-confederate-myth-examined/

THE FREE COLORED SOLDIERS. – We some days ago mentioned that the Creole free colored population downtown had taken the war question into consideration, and determined to offer their services to Gov. Moore, for home defence. At the meeting held for this purpose, some 1500 men were present. With one voice and with the greatest enthusiasm they agreed to offer themselves, and did so. The Governor accepted them, and they are now forming companies, as their fathers and grandfathers did in 1814 and ’15. Should their services be needed, they will be among our hardest and best fighters. Jordan Noble, better known as “Old Jordan,” the Drummer of Chalmette, is raising a free colored company; and we learn a similar company is being organized in Jefferson City. When the down-town free colored men form their regiment (and it will be a rousing one.) they will make a show as pleasing to all, as it will be surprising to many of our population. We will give further particulars as the organization progresses. – New Orleans Daily Crescent. April 27, 1861
They are not described as 'Confederate' soldiers. Their service is for 'home defense'. They are not described as 'Black Confederates'

In New Orleans, there was an assemblage of over two thousand, when speeches were made – some in French, by the French negroes, that is, negroes from that part of the city where French is the only language among white and black – resolutions were passed tendering their services to the Confederate States. – Orleans Independent Standard. (Irasburgh, Vt.) 1856-1871, May 24, 1861

They are not described as 'Confederate' soldiers. They were not accepted into the 'Confederate States' Army. They are not described as 'Black Confederates'

OUR FREE COLORED MEN. – Our free colored men of the Barthelemy Settlement – who are certainly as much attached to the land of their birth as any of their white brethren born in Louisiana – we are happy to say, have formed themselves into an infantry company, and have elected Victor Reaud, Esq., their commander. If ever called into the field, the free colored men of the Barthelemy Settlement – who, by-the-by, own quite a large number of slaves – will fight the Black Republican hordes with as much determination and gallantry as any body of white men in the service of the Confederate States. – New Orleans Daily Crescent, May 29, 1861
They are not described as 'Confederate' soldiers. Their service is for 'home defense'. They are not described as 'Black Confederates'

Colored Soldiers. – Col. F. L. Claiborne, of Pointe Coupee, has organized a company of eighty of the free colored men of his parish, and says his company will compete for the honor of taking Old Abe captive. – New Orleans Daily Crescent, May 21, 1861

They are not described as 'Confederate' soldiers. They are not described as 'Black Confederates'

The lack of contemporary use of 'Black Confederate' means that it is a modern term, an anachronism that somehow must square the circle of the lack of contemporary mid 19th century use. The simplest way is to have Blacks in Confederate Army units with unit designations and muster rolls in the CSA chain of command. Lacking that makes any use of the term 'Black Confederate' open to interpretation. In the case of the Native Guards, they were never in CSA service. The backdoor is to claim that Blacks in State service are really in Confederate service by reason their State is a Confederate State. Black State Confederates somehow Black Confederates. In the case of the Native Guards, they never served in a State unit only in a local defense volunteer unit and in the end, never served the State of Louisiana in a military role. Maybe they are soldiers and maybe not. One can play with the term 'soldier' all day. They are not Confederats States soldiers. Dissing credential historians is not a solution to that problem.
Since the article is about belief and origins of belief, do you think the people who wrote and read those news stories would agree with your opinion? Why or why not?
 

jgoodguy

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Since the article is about belief and origins of belief, do you think the people who wrote and read those news stories would agree with your opinion? Why or why not?
I do not ask dead men's opinions.
 

Tom

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Did the Native Guard fight for the CSA? no.
Did the Native Guard fight for the State of Louisiana? no.
Did the Native Guard fight at all? no.
Did the Native Guard have CSA officers in command? no.
Was the Native Guard part of the CSA Army? no
Was the Native Guard a part of the Louisiana State Army? no.
Was the Native Guard trained in the manual of arms? no.
Was the Native Guard trained in military formation and drill? no.
Was the Native Guard a part of the Lousiana Militia. No, they were a separate volunteer unit until the Militia was reorganized and then the Native Guard was disbanded by law. Link
LOL
 

Andersonh1

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It seems to me that you're missing the whole point of this particular article, which is the well-founded suggestion that a belief in black men willing to take up arms for the Confederate States goes back to the war itself and is not a modern invention. Playing word games, i.e. "they didn't use the exact words "black Confederate"" does not change the meaning of the stories. Plenty of accounts existed, and whether they were true or false, the idea is still appearing in print long before the modern day.
 

jgoodguy

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It seems to me that you're missing the whole point of this particular article, which is the well-founded suggestion that a belief in black men willing to take up arms for the Confederate States goes back to the war itself and is not a modern invention. Playing word games, i.e. "they didn't use the exact words "black Confederate"" does not change the meaning of the stories. Plenty of accounts existed, and whether they were true or false, the idea is still appearing in print long before the modern day.
It seems to me that you are unable to understand that a 'Black Confederate' is a modern invention. It is an armed black man, indistinguishable from a slave, armed, uniformed, fed and trained by the national Confederate States of America, enrolled by a CSA recruiter in a recognized CSA unit with a unit designation existing under the CSA Army Regulations. The 19th-century belief you refer to may or may not be related to the modern 'Black Confederate'.
 

Kirk's Raider's

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It seems to me that you're missing the whole point of this particular article, which is the well-founded suggestion that a belief in black men willing to take up arms for the Confederate States goes back to the war itself and is not a modern invention. Playing word games, i.e. "they didn't use the exact words "black Confederate"" does not change the meaning of the stories. Plenty of accounts existed, and whether they were true or false, the idea is still appearing in print long before the modern day.
Could we even fill an average size municipal transit bus with all the known black Confederate soldiers? Could we even fill up a standard Greyhound bus with every single black non combatant who fired even one shot in anger against the blue bellies?
Kirk's Raider's
 

jgoodguy

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Why does the article reference "as one of many historians who tackles this topic claims? " and "in an attempt to get away from modern historians and their spin "suggesting something other than that.
Did you find the names of these 'historians?'.
 
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