The Battle Of Cold Harbor

[jgoodguy]

What you cult of Grant believers want to believe Grant wrote volume 2 without help

Less sarcasm and more facts, please.

 

[jgoodguy]

What you cult of Grant believers want to believe Grant wrote volume 2 without help... Note Grant died July 3 1885... here is Dawson words the stenographer...

Link: https://www.granthomepage.com/inttwain.htm

Snip... Volume 2 has not been started until April 1885... he dies in July... that is a lot of words...

At the time I came to work with the General, in April, most of the first volume of the Memoirs was done. This was written almost entirely with his own hand, and only a few corrections were made by him, and these related to the Vicksburg campaign. Very little of the second volume had been written, though he had written some of the Wilderness campaign, in accordance with his arrangement with the Century magazine to write them four articles.

Snip..

After I came he began to dictate, and he continued this as long as he was able to do so. As he went on his voice became weaker and weaker, and toward the last, I had to take my seat very close to his, and he whispered his words in my ear while I took them down in shorthand. His last dictation was on the 22nd of June, 1885.

Snip... he is working 2 hours a day.... first began and only got worst from there... He writing ideas not stories…

After this he would sit with his pad on his knee near me, and would write down his ideas and sometimes doodle. He was very weak, and his hand grew more and more trembling as he neared his death. When I first began, his working hours were from 10 until 12 in the morning. Then in the afternoon, his daughter-in-law, Mrs. Jesse Grant (Elizabeth) would read to him out of the books and refresh his memory, and he would sit with his notebook in hand and make notes.

Snip... read this they lied to him to make him feel to completed his task... again ideas not stories being written down...

The dictation for him was painful and his voice got lower and lower as he went on. At last it was a mere whisper and then it stopped altogether. I shall never forget his joy at the completion of his book. He was so afraid in the last weeks that he couldn't finish it or revise it. In writing his book, he used a yellow manila legal pad with blue lines and he wrote with a pencil. The work tired him very much, and at the end, he was only able to scratch down his ideas. I saw at last that he had reached the end and all he could do was wait for death.

Snip... they are being merciful with to Grant... they could not read the volume 2 to him...

In July, 1885, we were practically at the end, and I said to Fred Grant, "I think we had better tell your father that the book is done." Colonel Fred then told him. At first he hardly realized it, then he was very happy for a short period. He told those around him that his book was finished and he wanted it all read aloud to him. The next day, however, he was not so well, and he never got to the point where we could read aloud to him the second volume. It was only a few days after this that he died.

Snip...

The General spent some of his last days with his daughter, Nellie, and he seemed to want her near him as much as possible as the end approached.

Snip...

After the General's death on July 23 (1885), I hunted up all the slips of paper that the General had written upon and gave them to Colonel Fred and Mrs. Grant, except about a dozen that were written personally to me. Some of these notes relate to his book. Personally, the General was the most delightful and generous man I ever knew. He was always cautious in writing or talking, so as not to injure the feelings of anyone, and I remember many touching incidents of how he cut out sentences which he thought might hurt someone. He was hypersensitive in this regard and often imagined things might hurt someone when they might well have been left in. Had he been able and strong, he would have probably made his Memoirs comprise his whole life, but as it was, he was glad to be able to finish his military career.

Link: https://www.granthomepage.com/grantlaststand.htm

The can read and believe a man in the 19th century without modern pain killers was writing thousands of pages a day... his last three month of life... We are not talking about all the visitors he was getting those last months of his life too... The time line does not hold Grant had two months at best to write volume 2... common sense has to kick in... If I was a guessing man Fred finished the memoir... He did write part of his mother's as well... a thought

The only reason for the merry-go-round is because people do not want to use the common sense...

Good info. On pain killers, they were abundant and did not neet a prescription at the time.

 

[Al Mackey]

What you cult of Grant believers want to believe Grant wrote volume 2 without help... Note Grant died July 3 1885... here is Dawson words the stenographer...

Link: https://www.granthomepage.com/inttwain.htm

Snip... Volume 2 has not been started until April 1885... he dies in July... that is a lot of words...

At the time I came to work with the General, in April, most of the first volume of the Memoirs was done. This was written almost entirely with his own hand, and only a few corrections were made by him, and these related to the Vicksburg campaign. Very little of the second volume had been written, though he had written some of the Wilderness campaign, in accordance with his arrangement with the Century magazine to write them four articles.

Snip..

After I came he began to dictate, and he continued this as long as he was able to do so. As he went on his voice became weaker and weaker, and toward the last, I had to take my seat very close to his, and he whispered his words in my ear while I took them down in shorthand. His last dictation was on the 22nd of June, 1885.

Snip... he is working 2 hours a day.... first began and only got worst from there... He writing ideas not stories…

After this he would sit with his pad on his knee near me, and would write down his ideas and sometimes doodle. He was very weak, and his hand grew more and more trembling as he neared his death. When I first began, his working hours were from 10 until 12 in the morning. Then in the afternoon, his daughter-in-law, Mrs. Jesse Grant (Elizabeth) would read to him out of the books and refresh his memory, and he would sit with his notebook in hand and make notes.

Snip... read this they lied to him to make him feel to completed his task... again ideas not stories being written down...

The dictation for him was painful and his voice got lower and lower as he went on. At last it was a mere whisper and then it stopped altogether. I shall never forget his joy at the completion of his book. He was so afraid in the last weeks that he couldn't finish it or revise it. In writing his book, he used a yellow manila legal pad with blue lines and he wrote with a pencil. The work tired him very much, and at the end, he was only able to scratch down his ideas. I saw at last that he had reached the end and all he could do was wait for death.

Snip... they are being merciful with to Grant... they could not read the volume 2 to him...

In July, 1885, we were practically at the end, and I said to Fred Grant, "I think we had better tell your father that the book is done." Colonel Fred then told him. At first he hardly realized it, then he was very happy for a short period. He told those around him that his book was finished and he wanted it all read aloud to him. The next day, however, he was not so well, and he never got to the point where we could read aloud to him the second volume. It was only a few days after this that he died.

Snip...

The General spent some of his last days with his daughter, Nellie, and he seemed to want her near him as much as possible as the end approached.

Snip...

After the General's death on July 23 (1885), I hunted up all the slips of paper that the General had written upon and gave them to Colonel Fred and Mrs. Grant, except about a dozen that were written personally to me. Some of these notes relate to his book. Personally, the General was the most delightful and generous man I ever knew. He was always cautious in writing or talking, so as not to injure the feelings of anyone, and I remember many touching incidents of how he cut out sentences which he thought might hurt someone. He was hypersensitive in this regard and often imagined things might hurt someone when they might well have been left in. Had he been able and strong, he would have probably made his Memoirs comprise his whole life, but as it was, he was glad to be able to finish his military career.

Link: https://www.granthomepage.com/grantlaststand.htm

The can read and believe a man in the 19th century without modern pain killers was writing thousands of pages a day... his last three month of life... We are not talking about all the visitors he was getting those last months of his life too... The time line does not hold Grant had two months at best to write volume 2... common sense has to kick in... If I was a guessing man Fred finished the memoir... He did write part of his mother's as well... a thought

The only reason for the merry-go-round is because people do not want to use the common sense...

Now you're lying by claiming I said he had no help at all. The words in Volume 2 are all Grant's. He dictated some of it to Fred and to Noble Dawson, but it all came from Grant. If you can't discuss something honestly, then no one should discuss anything with you at all.

 

[Nitti]

Now you're lying by claiming I said he had no help at all. The words in Volume 2 are all Grant's. He dictated some of it to Fred and to Noble Dawson, but it all came from Grant. If you can't discuss something honestly, then no one should discuss anything with you at all.

This has been known to happen on the other site.

 

[5fish]

Now you're lying by claiming I said he had no help at all

If I did I apologized claiming your were lying....

The words in Volume 2 are all Grant's

It is obvious you did not read Dawson honest words... and you did not look at the time line and you choose to think a man dying of cancer in his last two months will be able to put out thousands of words daily without any modern pain killers... You must not have taken notes when Dawson said Grant was only putting down ideas not narratives. If you read not only Dawson but other descriptions of Grant in his last days you see he was hurting...

 

[O' Be Joyful]

This has been known to happen on the other site.

Many things have been known to happen, over there. That is one of the things that made it interesting, not to mention the great recipes

and puppy pics.

 

[L.C.]

Again, the 20 minutes is a myth. The attack lasted an hour.

Moot point. How many wounded were still alive at the time of the truce?

 

[Al Mackey]

Moot point. How many wounded were still alive at the time of the truce?

Moot point. Both Lee and Grant behaved poorly in that case.

 

[L.C.]

Moot point. Both Lee and Grant behaved poorly in that case.

Yes as humanitarians, however, the majority of wounded were federal. Therefore the extended delay was Grant’s avoidance of formality.

 

[Al Mackey]

Yes as humanitarians, however, the majority of wounded were federal. Therefore the extended delay was Grant’s avoidance of formality.

And Lee's insistence on formality. They were both equally to blame.

 

[O' Be Joyful]

They were both equally to blame.

Pride, kills more people than bullets or selectively dropped bombs.

 

[5fish]

Myth.

My numbers are not myths...

At Cold Harbor no advantage whatever was gained to compensate for the heavy loss we sustained. Indeed, the advantages other than those of relative losses, were on the Confederate side.

He does not apologize for the assault. He is making an assessment of the assault not condemning or implying it was a mistake.

 

[5fish]

Both Lee and Grant behaved poorly in that case.

The link to it all: https://almostchosenpeople.wordpress.com/2018/06/03/june-3-1864-cold-harbor-not-war-but-murder/

The Union casualties from the assault have been estimated from 3,000-7,000. I believe the upper estimate is more likely correct. The Confederates incurred about 1500 casualties. The armies would remain confronting each other at Cold Harbor until June 12, but there would be no further attacks. Total Union casualties from all the fighting at Cold Harbor were around 12,000 to 5,000 Confederate, the same disparity as at Fredericksburg, the Cold Harbor assault of June 3 resembling the futile Union assaults of that battle.

The assault at Cold Harbor was not any more useless than Fredericksburg... but Grant gets a bad rap...

Here Grant full Grant's full thought... yes he does use the word regret than couches by comparing it to Vicksburg... He broke the confederate disregard for the AoP with knew found respect and the war was over... No more One confederate to five yanks, they wanted none of the AoP... Grant broke the AoNV spirit...

I have always regretted that the last assault at Cold Harbor was ever made. I might say the same thing of the assault of the 22d of May, 1863, at Vicksburg. At Cold Harbor no advantage whatever was gained to compensate for the heavy loss we sustained. Indeed, the advantages other than those of relative losses, were on the Confederate side. Before that, the Army of Northern Virginia seemed to have acquired a wholesome regard for the courage, endurance, and soldierly qualities generally of the Army of the Potomac. They no longer wanted to fight them “one Confederate to five Yanks.” Indeed, they seemed to have given up any idea of gaining any advantage of their antagonist in the open field. They had come to much prefer breastworks in their front to the Army of the Potomac. This charge seemed to revive their hopes temporarily; but it was of short duration. The effect upon the Army of the Potomac was the reverse. When we reached the James River, however, all effects of the battle of Cold Harbor seemed to have disappeared.

 

[5fish]

Here the another tale of the battle and the lead up to it like Grant had a few chances to outmaneuver Lee and get to North Anna first... and one point where he could have hit one of Lee's corps on the march...

http://npshistory.com/publications/civil_war_series/11/sec1.htm