Brexit: Can Anyone Take the Wheel From Johnson?

O' Be Joyful · Aug 1, 2019

pool boy said:
Russia

A major F-up.

Operation Barbarossa, original name Operation Fritz, during World War II, code name for the German invasion of the Soviet Union, which was launched on June 22, 1941. The failure of German troops to defeat Soviet forces in the campaign signaled a crucial turning point in the war.

Like, I said not the brightest bulb. Over-extension when he could have secured western Europe. Pure stupidity and arrogance....which, btw, reminds me of someone.

Jim Klag · Aug 1, 2019

pool boy said:
You’re sayin’ the Japs made Hitler do it?

No he's saying Japan started WWII not Germany. Japan invaded Mongolia and China two years before Hindenburg made Adolf the Chancellor - meaning your statement about the League's inability to stop Germany is moot bullshit.

pool boy · Aug 1, 2019

Jim Klag said:
No he's saying Japan started WWII not Germany. Japan invaded Mongolia and China two years before Hindenburg made Adolf the Chancellor - meaning your statement about the League's inability to stop Germany is moot bullshit.

Strong language, Jim. Germany withdrew from the League 6 months after Hitler became Chancellor, ostensibly over arms parity with its neighbors France and Poland. By 1935 the UK policy of Appeasment under notably Neville Chamberlain was effected and was a monumental failure. Could the League of Nations have stopped German re-militarization? Of course they could have had the leaders had any backbone.

Jim Klag · Aug 1, 2019

pool boy said:
Strong language, Jim. Germany withdrew from the League 6 months after Hitler became Chancellor, ostensibly over arms parity with its neighbors France and Poland. By 1935 the UK policy of Appeasment under notably Neville Chamberlain was effected and was a monumental failure. Could the League of Nations have stopped German re-militarization? Of course they could have had the leaders had any backbone.

And what does any of that have to do with who started WWII?

Kirk's Raider's · Aug 2, 2019

pool boy said:
From what I read Ms. Merkel speeded up that process substantially.

As for the British Empire, it was falling apart on its own accord as times were changing and there was declining interest in keeping it together. Am reading a new book on Churchill with quite a bit more information than previous narratives, including transcripts from meetings with King George. Churchill was old school regarding empire but recognized that the world had changed.

I would argue both WWs particularly WW2 substantially led to the break up of the British Empire. The British Empire was very reluctant to let go of the Indian Subcontinent until they needed Indian support to expel the Japanese from Eastern India in 1944.
I agree Merkel signed Germany's death warrant. The German people like certain others will go slowly extinct. Getting back to @jgoodguy 's original point about Bre xit demographics is destiny. Demographics has destroyed large empires such has Rome. Armenia was once a large country but thanks to a high birth rate from the Turks now not so much .
To paraphrase Vincent Lombardi "demographics isn't the only thing it's much more important than that".
If the UK doesn't sharply limit immigration it won't exist as what we recognize as a British nation. History may record that the UK has already passed the demographic tipping point.
Kirk's Raider's

Kirk's Raider's · Aug 2, 2019

pool boy said:
True, he could have overwhelmed the Brits before the US agreed to Lend Lease and arms sales but went full retard and turned on the Soviets. With the UK out, those tank, airplane and vehicle shipments would have stopped and Russia would have been relatively easy pickings. If, of course, he had started out in the summer instead of late fall by remembering what happened to Napoleon and winter.

Not so sure about that. The Axis simply could not mount an amphibious invasion of the UK. The Luftwaffe simply could not achieve air superiority over Southern England. The German Navy simply lacked enough ships to bombard the English coast nor escort sufficient landing craft.
In contrast there were only two Luftwaffe fighter craft in all of Southern France by June 6th 1944 and the pilots of said craft actually had big balls and strafed allied troops . Of course two ME 109s can only do so much to stop a massive invasion.
The Italian Navy is hemmed in by the Straits of Gibraltar and the Suez Canal. Yes some Italian Submersible craft did reach Southern France.
So there was simply no way the Germans could ever invade the UK.
Kirk's Raider's

jgoodguy · Aug 2, 2019

Kirk's Raider's said:
I would argue both WWs particularly WW2 substantially led to the break up of the British Empire. The British Empire was very reluctant to let go of the Indian Subcontinent until they needed Indian support to expel the Japanese from Eastern India in 1944.
I agree Merkel signed Germany's death warrant. The German people like certain others will go slowly extinct. Getting back to @jgoodguy 's original point about Bre xit demographics is destiny. Demographics has destroyed large empires such has Rome. Armenia was once a large country but thanks to a high birth rate from the Turks now not so much .
To paraphrase Vincent Lombardi "demographics isn't the only thing it's much more important than that".
If the UK doesn't sharply limit immigration it won't exist as what we recognize as a British nation. History may record that the UK has already passed the demographic tipping point.
Kirk's Raider's

And it may not. The history of mankind is that old peoples fade and new ones take their place. I doubt White Anglo Saxons are the exception.

rittmeister · Aug 2, 2019

Kirk's Raider's said:
Not so sure about that. The Axis simply could not mount an amphibious invasion of the UK. The Luftwaffe simply could not achieve air superiority over Southern England. The German Navy simply lacked enough ships to bombard the English coast nor escort sufficient landing craft.
In contrast there were only two Luftwaffe fighter craft in all of Southern France by June 6th 1944 and the pilots of said craft actually had big balls and strafed allied troops . Of course two ME 109s can only do so much to stop a massive invasion.
The Italian Navy is hemmed in by the Straits of Gibraltar and the Suez Canal. Yes some Italian Submersible craft did reach Southern France.
So there was simply no way the Germans could ever invade the UK.
Kirk's Raider's

you don't need to pass gibraltar to reach southern france as france has a rather long mediterranean coast. if you are talking about the french atlantic coast that's in the west of france.

Jim Klag · Aug 2, 2019

Kirk's Raider's said:
Armenia was once a large country but thanks to a high birth rate from the Turks now not so much .

Not to mention serious ethnic cleansing by the Turks.

Jim Klag · Aug 2, 2019

Kirk's Raider's said:
In contrast there were only two Luftwaffe fighter craft in all of Southern France by June 6th 1944

Southern France? Normandy is northwestern France. Bf-109's did not have the range to reach Normandy from southern France.

Kirk's Raider's · Aug 2, 2019

Jim Klag said:
Southern France? Normandy is northwestern France. Bf-109's did not have the range to reach Normandy from southern France.

Minor mistake. The twoMe 09s are in the book the Longest Day.
Kirk's Raider's

Kirk's Raider's · Aug 2, 2019

Jim Klag said:
Not to mention serious ethnic cleansing by the Turks.

Which is due to demographics. He who has the most babies wins.
Kirk's Raider's

Jim Klag · Aug 2, 2019

Kirk's Raider's said:
Which is due to demographics. He who has the most babies wins.
Kirk's Raider's

What? Rounding up and killing Armenians is demographic based? Are you nuts? Especially since Turkey's baby boom came long after they massacred Armenians.

Wehrkraftzersetzer · Aug 2, 2019

Kirk's Raider's said:
Which is due to demographics. He who has the most babies wins.
Kirk's Raider's

God is always on the side of the heaviest batallions (N.I.B & RB quoting him) not on the side with the big(li)est bellies

Jim Klag · Aug 2, 2019

Kirk's Raider's said:
Minor mistake. The twoMe 09s are in the book the Longest Day.
Kirk's Raider's

And they came from north of the D-Day landings. Actually Joseph Priller of the JG 26 squadron and his winger, Heinz Wodarczyk flew Fw-190's and flew out of Lille. Contrary to Ryan's book, they were not the only Luftwaffe unit to attack the beaches. Squadrons I/JG 2, I/JG 26, III/JG 26 and Stab also sent fighters and bombers to attack the Normandy beaches. All of the fighters were Fw-190's. Some of the bombers were He-177's, the Luftwaffe's only heavy bombers. I'm not sure of all the bomber types involved - might want to ask Herr @rittmeister .

rittmeister · Aug 2, 2019

Jim Klag said:
And they came from north of the D-Day landings. Actually Joseph Priller of the JG 26 squadron and his winger, Heinz Wodarczyk flew Fw-190's and flew out of Lille. Contrary to Ryan's book, they were not the only Luftwaffe unit to attack the beaches. Squadrons I/JG 2, I/JG 26, III/JG 26 and Stab also sent fighters and bombers to attack the Normandy beaches. All of the fighters were Fw-190's. Some of the bombers were He-177's, the Luftwaffe's only heavy bombers. I'm not sure of all the bomber types involved - might want to ask Herr @rittmeister .

he-177 greiff wasn't our only 4 engined heavy bomber, but the only one in numbers - stuka nonesense made it totally overengineered. got no clue who the numbers 3 to n of those two were. if the longest day qualifies as factual then so does gone with the wind.

the pic is taken from the linked page

Jim Klag · Aug 2, 2019

Jim Klag said:
And they came from north of the D-Day landings. Actually Joseph Priller of the JG 26 squadron and his winger, Heinz Wodarczyk flew Fw-190's and flew out of Lille. Contrary to Ryan's book, they were not the only Luftwaffe unit to attack the beaches. Squadrons I/JG 2, I/JG 26, III/JG 26 and Stab also sent fighters and bombers to attack the Normandy beaches. All of the fighters were Fw-190's. Some of the bombers were He-177's, the Luftwaffe's only heavy bombers. I'm not sure of all the bomber types involved - might want to ask Herr @rittmeister .

If you want to read a real good modern source on D-Day, read Rick Atkinson's The Guns At Last Light, the third volume of his Liberation Trilogy, and/or, D DAY Through German Eyes - The Hidden Story of June 6th, 1944. Both are great reads.

5fish · Aug 2, 2019

We are watching the last gasp of an empire fad away into history. Once the British complete Brexit, we will watch Scotland, Northern Ireland and maybe even London all wanting to leave the United Kingdom to go join the EU... The British Empire will officially be a footnote in history in this century...

O' Be Joyful · Aug 2, 2019

Kirk's Raider's · Aug 3, 2019

rittmeister said:
you don't need to pass gibraltar to reach southern france as france has a rather long mediterranean coast. if you are talking about the french atlantic coast that's in the west of france.

True but the point I was trying to make to @pool boy was the Italian Navy would not if been able to assist the German Navy in invading England because they were genes in other then some Italian Submarine's that snuck through the Straits of Gibraltar to participate in the battle of the Atlantic.

5fish said:
We are watching the last gasp of an empire fad away into history. Once the British complete Brexit, we will watch Scotland, Northern Ireland and maybe even London all wanting to leave the United Kingdom to go join the EU... The British Empire will officially be a footnote in history in this century...

Time will certainly tell. Predicating the future is tricky but the above scenario is plausible.
Kirk's Raider's

Brexit: Can Anyone Take the Wheel From Johnson?

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