A Good Guy with a Gun vs Bad Guy with a Gun ( a myth )

5fish · Nov 27, 2019

Here is a study showing the narrative of " You need a good guy with a gun to stop a bad guy with a gun" is a false narrative. Here is a Harvard study proving more gun means more gun violence.

Link: to the Harvard study... https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/hicrc/...3uSirEbLB0xeJiO5wUZyjFndSl9AzzBI9t7dE3oHSpbTg

I posted the main points but there are good one paragraphs long summary to each of the eleven main points...

1-3. Guns are not used millions of times each year in self-defense

4. Most purported self-defense gun uses are gun uses in escalating arguments, and are both socially undesirable and illegal

5. Firearms are used far more often to intimidate than in self-defense

6. Guns in the home are used more often to intimidate intimates than to thwart crime

7. Adolescents are far more likely to be threatened with a gun than to use one in self-defense

8. Criminals who are shot are typically the victims of crime

9-10. Few criminals are shot by decent law-abiding citizens

11. Self-defense gun use is rare and not more effective at preventing injury than other protective actions

5fish · Nov 27, 2019

Here is a shot video of 18 charts why guns kill... not people...

rittmeister · Nov 27, 2019

5fish said:
Here is a study showing the narrative of " You need a good guy with a gun to stop a bad guy with a gun" is a false narrative. Here is a Harvard study proving more gun means more gun violence. (...)

i do expect everyone to be at their best behaviour in thisone because, let's just say, the leash will be a very short one

5fish · Nov 27, 2019

A article … https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2017/11/6/16612014/sutherland-springs-shooting-good-guy-gun

1) The research is clear: more guns, more gun deaths
Here is a simple fact that should underpin most conversations about guns: Where there are more guns, there are more gun deaths. This has been found repeatedly in empirical research on the matter.

At the same time, the US has by far the highest number of guns in the world. According to a 2007 estimate, the number of civilian-owned firearms in the US was 88.8 guns per 100 people, meaning there was almost one privately owned gun per American and more than one per American adult. The world's second-ranked country was Yemen, a quasi-failed state torn by civil war, where there were 54.8 guns per 100 people.

2) For every criminal killed in self-defense, there are dozens more murders
There’s another set of statistics that throws cold water on the “good guy with a gun” theory: It’s way more likely in America that someone will shoot and kill another person in the course of committing a crime than will do so in self-defense.

Other data suggests this applies to mass shootings as well. According to the FBI’s report on active shooter events between 2000 and 2013, only about 3 percent were stopped by a civilian with a gun. Unarmed civilians actually stopped more incidents — about 13 percent. Most of the incidents — more than 56 percent — ended on the shooter’s initiative, when the shooter either killed himself or herself, simply stopped shooting, or fled the scene.

3) Even armed civilians typically can’t respond to a shooting in time
One reason the “good guy with a gun” theory by and large doesn’t work out in reality: Even when people are armed, that doesn’t mean they can properly respond to a mass shooting.

There is more detail at the link you should know....

5fish · Nov 27, 2019

There is this video why Goods Guy with a gun do not work....

The Daily Show also put this theory to the test in another, more comedic, simulation segment. Jordan Klepper, who was a correspondent with the show at the time, trained on the basics of using a firearm and got a concealed carry permit that was valid in 30 states. Then he participated in mass shooting simulations to see how he would hold up in such a scenario. He failed — miserably. In his final test, which simulated a school shooting, he shot an unarmed civilian, and he was shot multiple times by the active shooters and even law enforcement, who mistook him for the bad guy. He never took down the active shooters.

jgoodguy · Nov 27, 2019

rittmeister said:
i do expect everyone to be at their best behaviour in thisone because, let's just say, the leash will be a very short one

Thanks.

5fish · Nov 27, 2019

I expected no one would argue against these post because I crushed the pro- gun freaks on FB with them. The facts do not support the good guy with a gun myth...

rittmeister · Nov 27, 2019

5fish said:
I expected no one would argue against these post because I crushed the pro- gun freaks on FB with them. The facts do not support the good guy with a gun myth...

i'm waiting - want me to kill that double post?

5fish · Nov 27, 2019

rittmeister said:
i'm waiting - want me to kill that double post?

Ok

rittmeister · Nov 27, 2019

5fish said:
Ok

done

Kirk's Raider's · Nov 28, 2019

5fish said:
Here is a study showing the narrative of " You need a good guy with a gun to stop a bad guy with a gun" is a false narrative. Here is a Harvard study proving more gun means more gun violence.

Link: to the Harvard study... https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/hicrc/...3uSirEbLB0xeJiO5wUZyjFndSl9AzzBI9t7dE3oHSpbTg

I posted the main points but there are good one paragraphs long summary to each of the eleven main points...

1-3. Guns are not used millions of times each year in self-defense

4. Most purported self-defense gun uses are gun uses in escalating arguments, and are both socially undesirable and illegal

5. Firearms are used far more often to intimidate than in self-defense

6. Guns in the home are used more often to intimidate intimates than to thwart crime

7. Adolescents are far more likely to be threatened with a gun than to use one in self-defense

8. Criminals who are shot are typically the victims of crime

9-10. Few criminals are shot by decent law-abiding citizens

11. Self-defense gun use is rare and not more effective at preventing injury than other protective actions

So the argument is the US should only allow criminals and police to own firearms and law abiding citizens should be at the mercy of criminals?
The UK has had very strict firearms restrictions for decade's. The UK was unable to stop firearms from getting into the hands of Catholic and Protestant terrorists in Northern Ireland.
The US has many unaccounted firearms in circulation. Is it just fine for criminals to terrorize citizens who must rely on underfunded and manned police departments with now poor morale?
There is an old saying "when seconds count the police are only minutes away".
Kirk's Raider's

5fish · Nov 28, 2019

Kirk's Raider's said:
So the argument is the US should only allow criminals and police to own firearms and law abiding citizens should be at the mercy of criminals?

Your argument gets trumped but the Harvard report showing guns are rarely use to stop a bad guy with a gun. The self defense argument is also trumped by the report showing guns are used by legal gun owners in personal conflicts it to intimate...

rittmeister · Nov 28, 2019

Kirk's Raider's said:
So the argument is the US should only allow criminals and police to own firearms

in fact criminals would not be allowed to have guns

Kirk's Raider's said:
The UK has had very strict firearms restrictions for decade's. The UK was unable to stop firearms from getting into the hands of Catholic and Protestant terrorists in Northern Ireland.

not true - the strict gun laws in the uk came later. after the war the uk had the most liberal gunlaws in western europe for decades.

Kirk's Raider's said:
citizens who must rely on underfunded and manned police departments

why not fund and man them properly?

Kirk's Raider's said:
with now poor morale?

what's the reason for that?

Kirk's Raider's · Nov 28, 2019

5fish said:
Your argument gets trumped but the Harvard report showing guns are rarely use to stop a bad guy with a gun. The self defense argument is also trumped by the report showing guns are used by legal gun owners in personal conflicts it to intimate...

So Americans must put full faith in their under manned and demoralized police departments to quickly come to their aid ? In some cities it is not uncommon to be put in hold just to talk to a 911 operator.
That's going to be a tough political sell.
Kirk's Raider's

O' Be Joyful · Nov 28, 2019

Oh jeeze, someone needs to have some more Turkey and carbohydrates.

The Truth About Turkey and Tryptophan

My dinner is about to start.

rittmeister · Nov 28, 2019

O' Be Joyful said:
Oh jeeze, someone needs to have some more Turkey and carbohydrates.

The Truth About Turkey and Tryptophan

My dinner is about to start.

dead link

O' Be Joyful · Nov 28, 2019

rittmeister said:
dead link

https://time.com/4580001/thanksgiving-turkey-tryptophan/

Kirk's Raider's · Nov 28, 2019

rittmeister said:
in fact criminals would not be

allowed to have guns

not true - the strict gun laws in the uk came later. after the war the uk had the most liberal gunlaws in western europe for decades.

why not fund and man them properly?

what's the reason for that?

Of course criminals will be allowed to have guns because by definition criminals don't follow laws to begin with. Even the UK has thousands of gun crimes per year.
Talk to any police recruiting officer today just how hard it is to attract qualified candidates for police officer.

rittmeister said:
in fact criminals would not be

allowed to have guns

not true - the strict gun laws in the uk came later. after the war the uk had the most liberal gunlaws in western europe for decades.

why not fund and man them properly?

what's the reason for that?

Of course criminals are allowed to have guns since criminals don't follow laws. There is no way to prevent criminals from having guns since so many are in circulation. There is no way to prevent guns from being smuggled into the US just as there is no way of stopping drugs from being smuggled into the US.
Fully functional semi automatic hand guns have been manufactured since 1896 so fire arms can easily be made in any country.
It is very difficult for police to recruit qualified young people to become police officers. It's simply not worth the effort and stress for the pay involved. There is simply not enough money to hire enough police officers to be everywhere. Its going to be a tough political sell to convince the American people to disarm themselves and completely trust there undermanned police department's to protect them.
Kirk's Raider's

5fish · Nov 29, 2019

Kirk's Raider's said:
So Americans must put full faith in their under manned and demoralized police

I hope you read the article and study. It mentioned in one article only 3 percent of crimes end with a good guy with a gun, while in the study only 1 precent of crimes end with a good guy with a gun. Most criminals with a gun get stopped by people without guns...

It not an issue they the criminals will have guns and everyone will be prey is false...

5fish · Nov 29, 2019

I found this video a long time ago... It's good for it shows you why in gun shotout why everyone is shooting and missing... It is long because they are trying to sell you thier program... If you own a gun it worth watching...

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A Good Guy with a Gun vs Bad Guy with a Gun ( a myth )

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