Some White People on Plantation Tours Don't to Hear About Slaves!

jgoodguy

Webmaster
Staff member
Administrator
Joined
May 12, 2019
Messages
7,154
Reaction score
4,169
Ew! It’s such a bummer to have to hear about all that slavery stuff

Perhaps you’ve heard of white fragility.

The term was popularized by sociologist Robin DiAngelo in her 2018 book of the same name that seeks to explain why white people often find it so hard to discuss race, why the subject frequently makes them angry and defensive. Well, a textbook example of that fragility recently roiled social media.

We’re indebted to Saira Rao, a former candidate for Congress from Colorado. She tweeted a screenshot of an online review from a tourist who was “extremely disappointed” at having visited a Southern plantation only to find the tour included material on — of all things — slavery. “We felt we were being lectured and bashed,” this person wrote.

The Washington Post and The Root did some digging and found, not shockingly, that this is not unique. There’s apparently a vocal minority of white people who go to southern plantations expecting Rhett Butler, Scarlett O’Hara and fiddle-dee-dee and who catch the vapors upon finding that their historical tours include, well … history.

Read the entire article at: https://www.miamiherald.com/opinion...HTWejCm95OTJcaeFmGshhh6e8xIOw09cNqUGAn-TaPsrg
Good find.

I'd argue that it is a human weakness, held by all races. The Japanese appear to be sensitive about WWII for example. The civilian deaths from the firebombing of Dresen make Brits uncomfortable.
 

Al Mackey

Well-Known Member
Joined
May 14, 2019
Messages
596
Reaction score
533
Good find.

I'd argue that it is a human weakness, held by all races. The Japanese appear to be sensitive about WWII for example. The civilian deaths from the firebombing of Dresen make Brits uncomfortable.
Neither Japanese nor Brit are races. The term is applied to discussions about race, not about wars or firebombing.
 

jgoodguy

Webmaster
Staff member
Administrator
Joined
May 12, 2019
Messages
7,154
Reaction score
4,169
Last edited:

Viper21

Well-Known Member
Joined
May 13, 2019
Messages
639
Reaction score
600
Ain't that a bee-ach. Imagine folks questioning sources...I can not even....;)

Good post btw, Al. Maybe some will think, if not necessarily...deeply.
Interesting. I was more struck by the last two sentences of the post you quoted.

“People’s willingness to engage decently with other human beings is eroding year by year. What people think is reasonable to say to another human is in a profoundly different place now than it was two years ago.”

I believe these statements are reinforced daily.
 

Viper21

Well-Known Member
Joined
May 13, 2019
Messages
639
Reaction score
600

Perhaps you’ve heard of white fragility.

The term was popularized by sociologist Robin DiAngelo in her 2018 book of the same name that seeks to explain why white people often find it so hard to discuss race, why the subject frequently makes them angry and defensive. Well, a textbook example of that fragility recently roiled social media.

This claim is not inclusive to white people. The topic seems to bring out the worst in most folks. It then goes right into my previous post....
 

Andersonh1

Well-Known Member
Joined
May 13, 2019
Messages
580
Reaction score
742
I wonder if the reason people don't want to hear about slavery is because it's not part of a balanced and comprehensive presentation, as I've noted before. It's becoming the most-emphasized aspect of history in any number of places. To be blunt, instead of being educated, people are being beaten over the head with the subject of slavery.

https://www.suzannecsherman.com/pos...6l43J05eLJ4l6aJ7usEZoh1T0EZAFGL75T6dzeHfJHV1I

Two weeks into our journey, we finally arrived at the home of Thomas Jefferson. In front of the ticket office was a sandwich board display advertising a smart phone app called Slave Life at Monticello. At this point, I was noticing a pattern, and that is the politically – and now historically - correct desire to shift attention, whenever possible, to the issue of slavery.

Our docent appeared knowledgeable enough, but he also seemed to have an agenda: to divert attention from the man who owned this property, one of America's Founding Fathers, to slavery. He never missed an opportunity: when we ascended the narrow staircases, we were instructed to imagine how difficult it was for the “enslaved servants to carry meal trays up and down this narrow stairway.” At every fireplace - “imagine enslaved servants having to carry wood up to these fireplaces...” It just went on and on.

Jefferson's philosophical and political viewpoints were omitted to leave time for an explanation of how difficult life was for his “enslaved” servants. Not once did he omit the term “enslaved” - his demeanor was patronizing and condescending to those who made the journey to see Monticello, for anyone vaguely familiar with Thomas Jefferson would know that he owned slaves.

Later that day we arrived at Montpelier, the home of James Madison. The introductory movie here was a laughable exercise in self-contradiction. On the one hand, masters and slaves were said to experience a mutually beneficial relationship. The movie concluded with the accusation that “hundreds of African-Americans were enslaved to benefit a single white family.” I am still wondering if they bothered to edit their own efforts upon completion of this feckless presentation.

After viewing the film, we took the tour of the home. The dining room featured cardboard cutouts of individuals who had been known to visit James and Dolly Madison. One such figure was the Marquis de Layfayette, who our guide indicated chided James Madison for not freeing his slaves.

---------------

The home of John C. Calhoun lies in the heart of Clemson University. The home is beautifully maintained, and gives visitors the impression that it is still lived in - with one exception: poster boards with pictures of slaves and their stories are EVERYWHERE, even in the entries of bedrooms, so you are forced to look around them from the doorway. I mentioned to the docent that their placement was a distraction and misplaced, and she agreed, but admitted there was nothing she could do about it. Reading between the lines, one cannot but conclude the same trend was occurring here as well.

----------------

Our journey would not be complete without a visit to Colonial Williamsburg. Our first tour would be of the Randolph House. While waiting outside of the house, we were informed that the tour would cover the home itself, its rooms, architecture and brief description of the family who lived there. After that, the tour would concentrate on the many slaves who served the Randolph family, what life was like for them, and the hardships they were forced to endure.

When I inquired if the tour guide would inform us of the philosophical ideologies and numerous political contributions the Randolph family made in Colonial Virginia and in the founding of America, the guide shrugged his shoulders and shook his head, indicating he would not. It was simply not important.

At that point, one of the other guides, a man portraying a slave, admonished me, “We're not gonna sugar-coat ANYTHING.” I could only take this to mean that illuminating the values and contributions of the Randolph family was not worthy information to be shared on this tour.

----------------------------

Interestingly, none of these agenda-driven, revisionist-style performances were presented at Poplar Forest, Thomas Jefferson's other home west of Charlottsville. I complimented the docent for enlightening us on the details of the home and the family, and told him how much we appreciated him not making the tour about slavery, as they did at Monticello and Montpelier. In response, he asked if I would forward my comments to the staff at the main visitor center, as there was a faction trying to shift the emphasis the presentation to slavery. When I did so, my comments were met with obvious displeasure by a woman working in the gift shop, who likely disagreed with my feed back.

I cannot help but wonder why attention is being diverted from one theme (the lives of the inhabitants of the homes we visited, for example) to another (slavery) . The former have been dominated by the latter, to the detriment of both. I couldn't help but notice at Montpelier the tour about slavery was two and a half times longer in duration than the tour of James Madison's home. While both Montpelier and Monticello had tours dedicated to the issue of slavery, you could not take the tour of the main house without constant interjections of the subject of slavery. The only discussion pertaining primarily to Jefferson's personal life was a tedious lecture on his extended lineage; the time would have been much better spent on the topic of his idea of federalism, for instance. (A subject never raised on either tour.)

The bottom line:

The point is not that the issue of slavery is unworthy of recognition; it is that slavery is dominating the theme of these places to the detriment of the discussion and sharing of the ideals, philosophies and political goals upon which America was founded.​
 
Last edited:

jgoodguy

Webmaster
Staff member
Administrator
Joined
May 12, 2019
Messages
7,154
Reaction score
4,169
Neither Japanese nor Brit are races. The term is applied to discussions about race, not about wars or firebombing.
White Americans subject to 'white fragility'. are not a race either not is white a race. Whites are considered a subset of the Caucasian 'race' with a variety of skin tones ranging up to dark brown. .
 

jgoodguy

Webmaster
Staff member
Administrator
Joined
May 12, 2019
Messages
7,154
Reaction score
4,169
I wonder if the reason people don't want to hear about slavery is because it's not part of a balanced and comprehensive presentation, as I've noted before. It's becoming the most-emphasized aspect of history in any number of places. To be blunt, instead of being educated, people are being beaten over the head with the subject of slavery.

https://www.suzannecsherman.com/pos...6l43J05eLJ4l6aJ7usEZoh1T0EZAFGL75T6dzeHfJHV1I

Two weeks into our journey, we finally arrived at the home of Thomas Jefferson. In front of the ticket office was a sandwich board display advertising a smart phone app called Slave Life at Monticello. At this point, I was noticing a pattern, and that is the politically – and now historically - correct desire to shift attention, whenever possible, to the issue of slavery.

Our docent appeared knowledgeable enough, but he also seemed to have an agenda: to divert attention from the man who owned this property, one of America's Founding Fathers, to slavery. He never missed an opportunity: when we ascended the narrow staircases, we were instructed to imagine how difficult it was for the “enslaved servants to carry meal trays up and down this narrow stairway.” At every fireplace - “imagine enslaved servants having to carry wood up to these fireplaces...” It just went on and on.

Jefferson's philosophical and political viewpoints were omitted to leave time for an explanation of how difficult life was for his “enslaved” servants. Not once did he omit the term “enslaved” - his demeanor was patronizing and condescending to those who made the journey to see Monticello, for anyone vaguely familiar with Thomas Jefferson would know that he owned slaves.

Later that day we arrived at Montpelier, the home of James Madison. The introductory movie here was a laughable exercise in self-contradiction. On the one hand, masters and slaves were said to experience a mutually beneficial relationship. The movie concluded with the accusation that “hundreds of African-Americans were enslaved to benefit a single white family.” I am still wondering if they bothered to edit their own efforts upon completion of this feckless presentation.

After viewing the film, we took the tour of the home. The dining room featured cardboard cutouts of individuals who had been known to visit James and Dolly Madison. One such figure was the Marquis de Layfayette, who our guide indicated chided James Madison for not freeing his slaves.

---------------

The home of John C. Calhoun lies in the heart of Clemson University. The home is beautifully maintained, and gives visitors the impression that it is still lived in - with one exception: poster boards with pictures of slaves and their stories are EVERYWHERE, even in the entries of bedrooms, so you are forced to look around them from the doorway. I mentioned to the docent that their placement was a distraction and misplaced, and she agreed, but admitted there was nothing she could do about it. Reading between the lines, one cannot but conclude the same trend was occurring here as well.

----------------

Our journey would not be complete without a visit to Colonial Williamsburg. Our first tour would be of the Randolph House. While waiting outside of the house, we were informed that the tour would cover the home itself, its rooms, architecture and brief description of the family who lived there. After that, the tour would concentrate on the many slaves who served the Randolph family, what life was like for them, and the hardships they were forced to endure.

When I inquired if the tour guide would inform us of the philosophical ideologies and numerous political contributions the Randolph family made in Colonial Virginia and in the founding of America, the guide shrugged his shoulders and shook his head, indicating he would not. It was simply not important.

At that point, one of the other guides, a man portraying a slave, admonished me, “We're not gonna sugar-coat ANYTHING.” I could only take this to mean that illuminating the values and contributions of the Randolph family was not worthy information to be shared on this tour.

----------------------------

Interestingly, none of these agenda-driven, revisionist-style performances were presented at Poplar Forest, Thomas Jefferson's other home west of Charlottsville. I complimented the docent for enlightening us on the details of the home and the family, and told him how much we appreciated him not making the tour about slavery, as they did at Monticello and Montpelier. In response, he asked if I would forward my comments to the staff at the main visitor center, as there was a faction trying to shift the emphasis the presentation to slavery. When I did so, my comments were met with obvious displeasure by a woman working in the gift shop, who likely disagreed with my feed back.

I cannot help but wonder why attention is being diverted from one theme (the lives of the inhabitants of the homes we visited, for example) to another (slavery) . The former have been dominated by the latter, to the detriment of both. I couldn't help but notice at Montpelier the tour about slavery was two and a half times longer in duration than the tour of James Madison's home. While both Montpelier and Monticello had tours dedicated to the issue of slavery, you could not take the tour of the main house without constant interjections of the subject of slavery. The only discussion pertaining primarily to Jefferson's personal life was a tedious lecture on his extended lineage; the time would have been much better spent on the topic of his idea of federalism, for instance. (A subject never raised on either tour.)

The bottom line:

The point is not that the issue of slavery is unworthy of recognition; it is that slavery is dominating the theme of these places to the detriment of the discussion and sharing of the ideals, philosophies and political goals upon which America was founded.​
How big is your sample? I am sorry, but a single example by one individual does not impress me.
 

jgoodguy

Webmaster
Staff member
Administrator
Joined
May 12, 2019
Messages
7,154
Reaction score
4,169
Interesting. I was more struck by the last two sentences of the post you quoted.

“People’s willingness to engage decently with other human beings is eroding year by year. What people think is reasonable to say to another human is in a profoundly different place now than it was two years ago.”

I believe these statements are reinforced daily.
I am not impressed by this argument. No evidence, no surveys, no definition of terms.
I go back to online debates in the 1980s. I see more politeness today than then.
 
Last edited:

Viper21

Well-Known Member
Joined
May 13, 2019
Messages
639
Reaction score
600
I am not impressed by this argument. No evidence, no surveys, no definition of terms.
I go back to online debates in the 1980s. I see more politeness today than then.
Wow...! You were online, debating folks, even before the World Wide Web was online....!! Impressive.
 

Matt McKeon

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 25, 2019
Messages
1,111
Reaction score
1,612
I find it hard to believe that in the stately plantation h
I wonder if the reason people don't want to hear about slavery is because it's not part of a balanced and comprehensive presentation, as I've noted before. It's becoming the most-emphasized aspect of history in any number of places. To be blunt, instead of being educated, people are being beaten over the head with the subject of slavery.

https://www.suzannecsherman.com/pos...6l43J05eLJ4l6aJ7usEZoh1T0EZAFGL75T6dzeHfJHV1I

Two weeks into our journey, we finally arrived at the home of Thomas Jefferson. In front of the ticket office was a sandwich board display advertising a smart phone app called Slave Life at Monticello. At this point, I was noticing a pattern, and that is the politically – and now historically - correct desire to shift attention, whenever possible, to the issue of slavery.

Our docent appeared knowledgeable enough, but he also seemed to have an agenda: to divert attention from the man who owned this property, one of America's Founding Fathers, to slavery. He never missed an opportunity: when we ascended the narrow staircases, we were instructed to imagine how difficult it was for the “enslaved servants to carry meal trays up and down this narrow stairway.” At every fireplace - “imagine enslaved servants having to carry wood up to these fireplaces...” It just went on and on.

Jefferson's philosophical and political viewpoints were omitted to leave time for an explanation of how difficult life was for his “enslaved” servants. Not once did he omit the term “enslaved” - his demeanor was patronizing and condescending to those who made the journey to see Monticello, for anyone vaguely familiar with Thomas Jefferson would know that he owned slaves.

Later that day we arrived at Montpelier, the home of James Madison. The introductory movie here was a laughable exercise in self-contradiction. On the one hand, masters and slaves were said to experience a mutually beneficial relationship. The movie concluded with the accusation that “hundreds of African-Americans were enslaved to benefit a single white family.” I am still wondering if they bothered to edit their own efforts upon completion of this feckless presentation.

After viewing the film, we took the tour of the home. The dining room featured cardboard cutouts of individuals who had been known to visit James and Dolly Madison. One such figure was the Marquis de Layfayette, who our guide indicated chided James Madison for not freeing his slaves.

---------------

The home of John C. Calhoun lies in the heart of Clemson University. The home is beautifully maintained, and gives visitors the impression that it is still lived in - with one exception: poster boards with pictures of slaves and their stories are EVERYWHERE, even in the entries of bedrooms, so you are forced to look around them from the doorway. I mentioned to the docent that their placement was a distraction and misplaced, and she agreed, but admitted there was nothing she could do about it. Reading between the lines, one cannot but conclude the same trend was occurring here as well.

----------------

Our journey would not be complete without a visit to Colonial Williamsburg. Our first tour would be of the Randolph House. While waiting outside of the house, we were informed that the tour would cover the home itself, its rooms, architecture and brief description of the family who lived there. After that, the tour would concentrate on the many slaves who served the Randolph family, what life was like for them, and the hardships they were forced to endure.

When I inquired if the tour guide would inform us of the philosophical ideologies and numerous political contributions the Randolph family made in Colonial Virginia and in the founding of America, the guide shrugged his shoulders and shook his head, indicating he would not. It was simply not important.

At that point, one of the other guides, a man portraying a slave, admonished me, “We're not gonna sugar-coat ANYTHING.” I could only take this to mean that illuminating the values and contributions of the Randolph family was not worthy information to be shared on this tour.

----------------------------

Interestingly, none of these agenda-driven, revisionist-style performances were presented at Poplar Forest, Thomas Jefferson's other home west of Charlottsville. I complimented the docent for enlightening us on the details of the home and the family, and told him how much we appreciated him not making the tour about slavery, as they did at Monticello and Montpelier. In response, he asked if I would forward my comments to the staff at the main visitor center, as there was a faction trying to shift the emphasis the presentation to slavery. When I did so, my comments were met with obvious displeasure by a woman working in the gift shop, who likely disagreed with my feed back.

I cannot help but wonder why attention is being diverted from one theme (the lives of the inhabitants of the homes we visited, for example) to another (slavery) . The former have been dominated by the latter, to the detriment of both. I couldn't help but notice at Montpelier the tour about slavery was two and a half times longer in duration than the tour of James Madison's home. While both Montpelier and Monticello had tours dedicated to the issue of slavery, you could not take the tour of the main house without constant interjections of the subject of slavery. The only discussion pertaining primarily to Jefferson's personal life was a tedious lecture on his extended lineage; the time would have been much better spent on the topic of his idea of federalism, for instance. (A subject never raised on either tour.)

The bottom line:

The point is not that the issue of slavery is unworthy of recognition; it is that slavery is dominating the theme of these places to the detriment of the discussion and sharing of the ideals, philosophies and political goals upon which America was founded.​
I think that anyone in a panic that the discussion of slavery would crowd out the accomplishments of the owners of America's stately plantation homes has got the wrong end of the handle. I mean after centuries of treating black people like they don't matter or were invisible, some historic sites are including segments of their tours that include the experience of 90% of the people who lived on these places. And for all her handwringing about the lack of discussion of federalism, I feel everything would have been fine and dandy if the tour had limited itself to the furniture and wainscotting, and we wouldn't have heard any concern over the lack of time spend on federalism. She was have been comfortable with a good coat of whitewash.
 

Andersonh1

Well-Known Member
Joined
May 13, 2019
Messages
580
Reaction score
742
I think that anyone in a panic that the discussion of slavery would crowd out the accomplishments of the owners of America's stately plantation homes has got the wrong end of the handle. I mean after centuries of treating black people like they don't matter or were invisible, some historic sites are including segments of their tours that include the experience of 90% of the people who lived on these places. And for all her handwringing about the lack of discussion of federalism, I feel everything would have been fine and dandy if the tour had limited itself to the furniture and wainscotting, and we wouldn't have heard any concern over the lack of time spend on federalism. She was have been comfortable with a good coat of whitewash.
Who is in a panic? The final statement sums up the problem quite clearly, and bears repeating:

The point is not that the issue of slavery is unworthy of recognition; it is that slavery is dominating the theme of these places to the detriment of the discussion and sharing of the ideals, philosophies and political goals upon which America was founded
I think I do understand the problem, and it pervades modern historical writing. Replacing or allowing the slave narrative to dominate is now seen by some as "balance", when true balance would be to add the slave experience to the overall history, not emphasize it to the detriment of all the other history.
 

Matt McKeon

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 25, 2019
Messages
1,111
Reaction score
1,612
I worked at the Lowell National Historical Park a long time ago. There are huge surviving complexes of industrial buildings, working housing and tenements as well as the original power canal system. Most of this structures have been repurposed at some point. We had tours about waterpower, and technology, but visitor interest was centered on the experience of factory work and the lives of the workers. We didn't have tours of the factory owners homes, and exclaim over the furniture.

Its not the equivalent of a great man's house. People go to Mount Vernon because of George Washington* to be sure. But maybe mostly white visitors can relate to mostly white workers more easily than with black slaves apparently.

*Be sure to check out "Ask a Slave" on youtube.
 

Matt McKeon

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 25, 2019
Messages
1,111
Reaction score
1,612
Who is in a panic? The final statement sums up the problem quite clearly, and bears repeating:

The point is not that the issue of slavery is unworthy of recognition; it is that slavery is dominating the theme of these places to the detriment of the discussion and sharing of the ideals, philosophies and political goals upon which America was founded​
The person you quoted, and some others. Mention the slaves, and suddenly they're worried about balance. What percentage should the tour discuss 90 percent of the residents of Monticello? Anything more than a few minutes is probably far too much.
 

Andersonh1

Well-Known Member
Joined
May 13, 2019
Messages
580
Reaction score
742
The person you quoted, and some others. Mention the slaves, and suddenly they're worried about balance. What percentage should the tour discuss 90 percent of the residents of Monticello? Anything more than a few minutes is probably far too much.
I don't see any "panic" evident in her column. I see a problem with historical sites overcorrecting (and I"m being charitable by suggesting this is any sort of "correction" on their part when I don't think that's the goal here) and making the opposite mistake of past generations. Now instead of downplaying and ignoring black history, we're doing to downplay white history and make SLAVERY the focal point. Neither approach is correct.
 
Top