The Law Will Not Save Us

[Kirk's Raider's]

Thanks for your opinion. All I know is where there are a lot of guns there is a lot of crime. Your claim that guns deter crime appears to have exceptions.

Vs having civilians be defenseless especially as it is no in vouge for criminals not to be incarcerated or only for short periods of time.
Kirk's Raiders

 

[rittmeister]

Vs having civilians be defenseless especially as it is no in vouge for criminals not to be incarcerated or only for short periods of time.
Kirk's Raiders

funny you should say that - click -

 

[jgoodguy]

funny you should say that - click -

A picture is worth a thousand evasions.

 

[Kirk's Raider's]

A picture is worth a thousand evasions.

The graph fails to note the fact that American criminals are on the whole only sentenced for short periods of time. I have worked in immigration court and constantly there were repeat offenders who cycled in and out of prison for the same or similar crimes. More recently the US is going completely back to the 1960s through 1980s policy of even shorter sentences.
In some states such has California theft is legal in the sense that a thrift at worst might spend a week or two in jail and only after many convictions.
Kirk's Raiders

 

[jgoodguy]

The graph fails to note the fact that American criminals are on the whole only sentenced for short periods of time. I have worked in immigration court and constantly there were repeat offenders who cycled in and out of prison for the same or similar crimes. More recently the US is going completely back to the 1960s through 1980s policy of even shorter sentences.
In some states such has California theft is legal in the sense that a thrift at worst might spend a week or two in jail and only after many convictions.
Kirk's Raiders

I know, make gun ownership mandatory and fill the graveyards with petty thieves.

 

[rittmeister]

The graph fails to note the fact that American criminals are on the whole only sentenced for short periods of time. I have worked in immigration court and constantly there were repeat offenders who cycled in and out of prison for the same or similar crimes. More recently the US is going completely back to the 1960s through 1980s policy of even shorter sentences.
In some states such has California theft is legal in the sense that a thrift at worst might spend a week or two in jail and only after many convictions.
Kirk's Raiders

nonsense - that map shows the precentage of people incarcerated at any given time. if you lock them up longer that number will start to climb. that's definately more of america first then.

what do you propose as the reason for the fact that the us lock up more people than anybody else and still suffer more from crime than any other (so called industry) nation?

• you rule out guns as the reason
  
• calling americans close to crime would be kinda racist
• undertrained and underfunded cops showing off with surplus military gear?

i really need your help with thisone because i simply don't get it

 

[Kirk's Raider's]

I know, make gun ownership mandatory and fill the graveyards with petty thieves.

I never said that. I think I bow out of this endless gun control debate it's just going in circles.
Kirk's Raiders

 

[jgoodguy]

I never said that. I think I bow out of this endless gun control debate it's just going in circles.
Kirk's Raiders

Like I said before, I can argue both sides with evidence when motivated, but some just want to go into circles and I am less than motivated.

There is but one way to argue gun control, IMHO, and that is from a maximum personal liberty viewpoint, but without absolutes that liberty needs permission from the people, no matter how it appears. Self-defense in the home is a good thing, but like all liberties, the public gets a say in its implementation. I'll not argue the sanity or effectiveness of such restrictions, only that the people get a say. Likewise, the idea of toting a gun around and disturbing the peoples' peace has problems. Again the people through their elected representatives are sovereign. Like other things, the demographics of Gun owners are not favorable and gun owner representatives like the NRA have put personal profit ahead of their members creating a difficult situation going forward.

 

[Viper21]

Can I have you on record that populations with large numbers of guns have no crime over time?

I'd prefer you just acknowledge your statement is wrong, "All I know is where there are a lot of guns there is a lot of crime."

 

[Kirk's Raider's]

nonsense - that map shows the precentage of people incarcerated at any given time. if you lock them up longer that number will start to climb. that's definately more of america first then.

what do you propose as the reason for the fact that the us lock up more people than anybody else and still suffer more from crime than any other (so called industry) nation?

• you rule out guns
• calling americans close to crime would be kinda racist
• undertrained and underfunded cops showing off with surplus military gear?

i really need your help with thisone because i simply don't get it

Because I already told you that the US has more in common with Brazil and South Africa both highly industrialized nations but more similar to the US in history and demographics. Nations that are homogeneous will have less crime then hetrogeneous nations. However as West European demographics change their crime and rates of terrorism will continue to grow.
Kirk's Raiders

 

[rittmeister]

Because I already told you that the US has more in common with Brazil and South Africa both highly industrialized nations but more similar to the US in history and demographics. Nations that are homogeneous will have less crime then hetrogeneous nations. However as West European demographics change their crime and rates of terrorism will continue to grow.
Kirk's Raiders

you beat them both by a countrymile - hell, you beat everybody in that race already. what exactly defines a s**th**e country again?

 

[jgoodguy]

I'd prefer you just acknowledge your statement is wrong, "All I know is where there are a lot of guns there is a lot of crime."

You are suggesting the logic equivalent of water is dry.

 

[Kirk's Raider's]

Like I said before, I can argue both sides with evidence when motivated, but some just want to go into circles and I am less than motivated.

There is but one way to argue gun control, IMHO, and that is from a maximum personal liberty viewpoint, but without absolutes that liberty needs permission from the people, no matter how it appears. Self-defense in the home is a good thing, but like all liberties, the public gets a say in its implementation. I'll not argue the sanity or effectiveness of such restrictions, only that the people get a say. Likewise, the idea of toting a gun around and disturbing the peoples' peace has problems. Again the people through their elected representatives are sovereign. Like other things, the demographics of Gun owners are not favorable and gun owner representatives like the NRA have put personal profit ahead of their members creating a difficult situation going forward.

Also@rittmeister,
Vermont and New Hampshire have the lowest rates of crime and yet citizens are free to carry firearms outside the home. Go figure.
Kirk's Raiders

 

[jgoodguy]

In the 1/20 VA gun rally, there was a lot of crime, mainly laws regarding wearing masks and the emergency proclamation. There were threats to the lives of legislators and the governors.

 

[jgoodguy]

Also@rittmeister,
Vermont and New Hampshire have the lowest rates of crime and yet citizens are free to carry firearms outside the home. Go figure.
Kirk's Raiders

Alabama has a high rate of crime and its citizens are free to carry firearms outside the home. Go figure.

 

[Viper21]

In the 1/20 VA gun rally, there was a lot of crime, mainly laws regarding wearing masks and the emergency proclamation. There were threats to the lives of legislators and the governors.

How many people were shot at the rally..? How many people were raped at the rally..? How many people were robbed at the rally..? How many people were assaulted at the rally..?

That's right a big fat zero. None. Nada. No violent crime at all. Though you & others would have us believe, that simply more guns = more violence..... complete BS. 50,000 guns & 1,000,000 rounds of ammunition confined in a small area. Zero incidents.

I was there. It was a beautiful thing

 

[Kirk's Raider's]

Alabama has a high rate of crime and its citizens are free to carry firearms outside the home. Go figure.

Let's examine the demographics of Alabama vs Vermont or New Hampshire.
Kirk's Raiders

 

[jgoodguy]

Let's examine the demographics of Alabama vs Vermont or New Hampshire.
Kirk's Raiders

Demographics is something left-wing red commie liberal rhetoric spinners fall back on.

 

[Kirk's Raider's]

Demographics is something left-wing red commie liberal rhetoric spinners fall back on.

No demorgaphics are facts. It's a fact that Vermont and New Hampshire per capital have a higher rate of gun ownership but much less crime then states with stricter gun control laws.
Kirk's Raiders

 

[rittmeister]

No demorgaphics are facts. It's a fact that Vermont and New Hampshire per capital have a higher rate of gun ownership but much less crime then states with stricter gun control laws.
Kirk's Raiders

you may want to bring population density into the equation - it's hard to shoot somebody if you need to drive an hour to find somebody even remotely shootable.